Ezra Klein

And what is the measure of that? Is it the quantity of manufacturing we're making? Is it the share of manufacturing?

And what is the measure of that? Is it the quantity of manufacturing we're making? Is it the share of manufacturing?

Okay.

Okay.

I really want to say that rather than having 30 minutes of debate over something that happened in the 90s, I would like to go back to this question. I keep not hearing. I will answer your question, Ezra, because that was a great question. I would like to hear from David. But I'd love yours too, Chamath. David established.

I really want to say that rather than having 30 minutes of debate over something that happened in the 90s, I would like to go back to this question. I keep not hearing. I will answer your question, Ezra, because that was a great question. I would like to hear from David. But I'd love yours too, Chamath. David established.

I think that there's a tendency to just begin talking in an anecdotal way about industry. This is not anecdotal. Okay. We want to move forward. Presidents announce these policies and then there's never. Give me the metrics.

I think that there's a tendency to just begin talking in an anecdotal way about industry. This is not anecdotal. Okay. We want to move forward. Presidents announce these policies and then there's never. Give me the metrics.

Give me what indices you are going to look for, where if in two years it is under X, I can come back and we can have a conversation. Here's some metrics. Ezra, I'm so sorry.

Give me what indices you are going to look for, where if in two years it is under X, I can come back and we can have a conversation. Here's some metrics. Ezra, I'm so sorry.

A couple things, because I think I probably agree with all of that. And what it sounds like is an excellent argument for Joe Biden's policies. which were functionally, maybe not the pharma side, just literally that. Let's pull out semiconductors and the semiconductor supply chain. Let's pull out energy. Let's put a couple of things like that. You know, what was it?

A couple things, because I think I probably agree with all of that. And what it sounds like is an excellent argument for Joe Biden's policies. which were functionally, maybe not the pharma side, just literally that. Let's pull out semiconductors and the semiconductor supply chain. Let's pull out energy. Let's put a couple of things like that. You know, what was it?

A high fence around a small garden is what Jake Sullivan called it. Let's particularly try to restrict the supply chain export of AI critical materials to China. They had a whole set of policies about this. Now, the Trump administration, the thing we are in theory here discussing is an extraordinarily broad based set of policies. It is tariffs on not just China. It's on Brazil.

A high fence around a small garden is what Jake Sullivan called it. Let's particularly try to restrict the supply chain export of AI critical materials to China. They had a whole set of policies about this. Now, the Trump administration, the thing we are in theory here discussing is an extraordinarily broad based set of policies. It is tariffs on not just China. It's on Brazil.

It's not just on critical industries like Chamath is talking about, but it's on, you know, mangoes and avocados and, you know, lumber from Canada and basically everything else.

It's not just on critical industries like Chamath is talking about, but it's on, you know, mangoes and avocados and, you know, lumber from Canada and basically everything else.

I guess there's an argument I could sort of extract out of this, that the Biden administration believed in what they called friend-shoring, which is that you want to create an integrated supply chain of allied countries that we can work with and that we can rely on.

I guess there's an argument I could sort of extract out of this, that the Biden administration believed in what they called friend-shoring, which is that you want to create an integrated supply chain of allied countries that we can work with and that we can rely on.

And the Trump administration, I think, believes something, depending on who's talking, more like that the entire supply chain needs to be onshore to America specifically.

And the Trump administration, I think, believes something, depending on who's talking, more like that the entire supply chain needs to be onshore to America specifically.