Ezra Klein

I want to think about this, and I guess I'm going to make this next point a little bit to be provocative. I'm not sure how much I believe it. I understand argumentatively and politically why you want to just say, look, it's fine for adults to do basically anything they want, but kids, the children are our future. We got to do something very different there. Fine.

I want to think about this, and I guess I'm going to make this next point a little bit to be provocative. I'm not sure how much I believe it. I understand argumentatively and politically why you want to just say, look, it's fine for adults to do basically anything they want, but kids, the children are our future. We got to do something very different there. Fine.

I think in practice it doesn't work. Why's that? Because if you are going to allow something to be both highly morally and legally permissible the moment somebody is 18, or frankly, in a lot of your frameworks, 16, I'm not saying it is literally impossible that you will implement such a hardcore age verification system that it will be impossible to do beneath that.

I think in practice it doesn't work. Why's that? Because if you are going to allow something to be both highly morally and legally permissible the moment somebody is 18, or frankly, in a lot of your frameworks, 16, I'm not saying it is literally impossible that you will implement such a hardcore age verification system that it will be impossible to do beneath that.

It's probably going to be pretty hard. Now, I think there are places where it works, right? But typically you want friction that is both moral and structural. It's a little bit more of a gradation throughout society. So what we have lost in a lot of places is friction. Yes. And there are things that you want to have some access to, but there'd be friction, right?

It's probably going to be pretty hard. Now, I think there are places where it works, right? But typically you want friction that is both moral and structural. It's a little bit more of a gradation throughout society. So what we have lost in a lot of places is friction. Yes. And there are things that you want to have some access to, but there'd be friction, right?

We had access to things like sports gambling, but you had to drive to Vegas, at least on the West Coast where I grew up. Taking away all the friction, making it available virtually everywhere and online has just then made it very, very, very dangerous to people because, you know, some percentage of people are going to develop a gambling problem. And we know that pretty well.

We had access to things like sports gambling, but you had to drive to Vegas, at least on the West Coast where I grew up. Taking away all the friction, making it available virtually everywhere and online has just then made it very, very, very dangerous to people because, you know, some percentage of people are going to develop a gambling problem. And we know that pretty well.

What we have done, and I mean, this is the genius of capitalism. What it does is it seeks out how to make the thing more interesting, more potent, more seductive, more alluring. And that's really great until a certain point.

What we have done, and I mean, this is the genius of capitalism. What it does is it seeks out how to make the thing more interesting, more potent, more seductive, more alluring. And that's really great until a certain point.

At which point the friction between you and the thing becomes too low. And then it's very, very, very hard for the limited software of the human mind to regulate the wants, at least in some people. Yeah. And so there's something about the loss of friction.

At which point the friction between you and the thing becomes too low. And then it's very, very, very hard for the limited software of the human mind to regulate the wants, at least in some people. Yeah. And so there's something about the loss of friction.

And I suspect that, and again, this is partially moral frameworks, if we're going to be completely fine with it at 19, it's going to be very hard for it to not be too present at 17.

And I suspect that, and again, this is partially moral frameworks, if we're going to be completely fine with it at 19, it's going to be very hard for it to not be too present at 17.

So I will stop just trying to be provocative because I do believe you can do age verification. One reason I wanted to have you on right now is it feels like the world is tipping in this. Yeah. So run me through. Let's stay not in Australia, but in the U.S. I feel like every day I turn on the news and I see some other governor or mayor announcing no phones in schools.

So I will stop just trying to be provocative because I do believe you can do age verification. One reason I wanted to have you on right now is it feels like the world is tipping in this. Yeah. So run me through. Let's stay not in Australia, but in the U.S. I feel like every day I turn on the news and I see some other governor or mayor announcing no phones in schools.

Tell me the scope of this at the moment.

Tell me the scope of this at the moment.

has still the strongest religious culture because of the Church of Latter-day Saints. And they have by far the strongest regulations on social media around children. That's right. I mean, you sort of see the way those two things, that sort of moral framework and that willing to regulate what feels like a vice is happening there. That's right.

has still the strongest religious culture because of the Church of Latter-day Saints. And they have by far the strongest regulations on social media around children. That's right. I mean, you sort of see the way those two things, that sort of moral framework and that willing to regulate what feels like a vice is happening there. That's right.