Ezra Klein

But to them, why wouldn't you? If you have this technology, then not only can, but will be. doing so much of this for you, for us, for the economy. Why are we doing any of this at all? Why are we reading these books ourselves when they can just be summarized for us? Why are we doing this math ourselves when a computer can just do it for us?

But to them, why wouldn't you? If you have this technology, then not only can, but will be. doing so much of this for you, for us, for the economy. Why are we doing any of this at all? Why are we reading these books ourselves when they can just be summarized for us? Why are we doing this math ourselves when a computer can just do it for us?

Why am I writing this essay myself when I can get a first draft in a couple minutes from Claude or from chat GPT? I have a three and a six-year-old, and one of the ways that my uncertainty about our AI-inflected future manifests is this deep uncertainty about how they should be educated. What are they going to need to know?

Why am I writing this essay myself when I can get a first draft in a couple minutes from Claude or from chat GPT? I have a three and a six-year-old, and one of the ways that my uncertainty about our AI-inflected future manifests is this deep uncertainty about how they should be educated. What are they going to need to know?

I don't know what the economy, what society is going to want from them in 16 or 20 years. And if I don't know what it's going to want from them, what it's going to reward in them, how do I know how they should be educated? How do I know if the education I am creating for them is doing a good job? How do I know if I'm failing them? How do you prepare for the unpredictable?

I don't know what the economy, what society is going to want from them in 16 or 20 years. And if I don't know what it's going to want from them, what it's going to reward in them, how do I know how they should be educated? How do I know if the education I am creating for them is doing a good job? How do I know if I'm failing them? How do you prepare for the unpredictable?

My guest today is Rebecca Winthrop, the director of the Center for Universal Education at the Brookings Institution. Her latest book, co-authored with Jenny Anderson, is The Disengaged Teen, helping kids learn better, feel better, and live better. As always, my email is reclineshow at nytimes.com. Rebecca Winthrop, welcome to the show.

My guest today is Rebecca Winthrop, the director of the Center for Universal Education at the Brookings Institution. Her latest book, co-authored with Jenny Anderson, is The Disengaged Teen, helping kids learn better, feel better, and live better. As always, my email is reclineshow at nytimes.com. Rebecca Winthrop, welcome to the show.

So I have a three and a six-year-old. I feel like I cannot predict with AI what it is society will want or reward from them in 15, 16 years, which makes this question in the interim, how should they be educated? What should they be educated towards? feel really uncertain to me. My confidence that the schools are set up now for the world they are going to graduate into is very, very low.

So I have a three and a six-year-old. I feel like I cannot predict with AI what it is society will want or reward from them in 15, 16 years, which makes this question in the interim, how should they be educated? What should they be educated towards? feel really uncertain to me. My confidence that the schools are set up now for the world they are going to graduate into is very, very low.

So you study education. You've been thinking a lot about education and AI. What advice would you give me?

So you study education. You've been thinking a lot about education and AI. What advice would you give me?

Well, I have a lot of hopes and dreams for my kids. I would like them to live happy, fulfilling lives. I think I'm not naive. And certainly in my lifetime, the implicit purpose of education, the way we say to ourselves, did this kid's education work out, is do they get a good job? Right. That's really what we're pointing the arrow towards. Right.

Well, I have a lot of hopes and dreams for my kids. I would like them to live happy, fulfilling lives. I think I'm not naive. And certainly in my lifetime, the implicit purpose of education, the way we say to ourselves, did this kid's education work out, is do they get a good job? Right. That's really what we're pointing the arrow towards. Right.

The fact that maybe developed their faculties as a human being, the fact that maybe they learned things that were beautiful or fascinating, that's all great. But if they do all that and they don't get a good job, then we failed them. And if they do none of that, but they do get a good job, then we succeeded. So I think that's been the reality of education.

The fact that maybe developed their faculties as a human being, the fact that maybe they learned things that were beautiful or fascinating, that's all great. But if they do all that and they don't get a good job, then we failed them. And if they do none of that, but they do get a good job, then we succeeded. So I think that's been the reality of education.

But I also think that reality relies a little bit on an economy in which we've asked people to act very often as machines of a kind. And now we've created these machines that can act or mimic as people of a kind. And so now the whole transaction is being thrown into some chaos. Exactly.

But I also think that reality relies a little bit on an economy in which we've asked people to act very often as machines of a kind. And now we've created these machines that can act or mimic as people of a kind. And so now the whole transaction is being thrown into some chaos. Exactly.

I think sometimes about this distinction between education as a virtue and education is something that is instrumental. Education is training. Studying the classics was important, not because it made it likelier that you got into law school, but because it deepened your appreciation of beauty, it deepened your capacities as a human being.

I think sometimes about this distinction between education as a virtue and education is something that is instrumental. Education is training. Studying the classics was important, not because it made it likelier that you got into law school, but because it deepened your appreciation of beauty, it deepened your capacities as a human being.