Ezra Klein

This can be like when I said orthogonal to you on my podcast. But I make this point that I always really liked, which is that there's an old political science idea that gets talked about all the time, which like the political science version of it is that Americans are symbolically conservative and operationally liberal.

This can be like when I said orthogonal to you on my podcast. But I make this point that I always really liked, which is that there's an old political science idea that gets talked about all the time, which like the political science version of it is that Americans are symbolically conservative and operationally liberal.

And the version of it people know is the Tea Party person with a sign that said, keep the government's hands off my Medicare. And the idea is Americans often like in national politics talking like conservatives. They like the rhetoric of personal responsibility and freedom and so on. Bootstraps. Yeah. And then they want Medicare and Medicaid and spending on social insurance.

And the version of it people know is the Tea Party person with a sign that said, keep the government's hands off my Medicare. And the idea is Americans often like in national politics talking like conservatives. They like the rhetoric of personal responsibility and freedom and so on. Bootstraps. Yeah. And then they want Medicare and Medicaid and spending on social insurance.

And I had this realization for a bunch of different reasons. I was living in California where I'm also from. So I know that state very well and I love it and I'm talking to you from it. But that in a lot of California, the politics were symbolically liberal and operationally conservative. That you had all these yard signs. Kindness is everything. No human being is illegal. We believe in science.

And I had this realization for a bunch of different reasons. I was living in California where I'm also from. So I know that state very well and I love it and I'm talking to you from it. But that in a lot of California, the politics were symbolically liberal and operationally conservative. That you had all these yard signs. Kindness is everything. No human being is illegal. We believe in science.

Hate has no home here. Hate has no home here. And it was all in yards zoned for single family housing where the working class had been driven out of the city, where at least in San Francisco, the black population for all the BLM stickers had been going down in census after census after census. And at the core of that was an unwillingness to let things change.

Hate has no home here. Hate has no home here. And it was all in yards zoned for single family housing where the working class had been driven out of the city, where at least in San Francisco, the black population for all the BLM stickers had been going down in census after census after census. And at the core of that was an unwillingness to let things change.

The willingness to symbolically state your liberal values is very high, but the willingness to instantiate them in change that might mean something for you personally, not mean you tax some other rich guy, but for you personally was very, very limited.

The willingness to symbolically state your liberal values is very high, but the willingness to instantiate them in change that might mean something for you personally, not mean you tax some other rich guy, but for you personally was very, very limited.

And so it was something I've been trying to work through around what was going on in California and then over the Biden administration as I began to think about what was going to be required to build all this green energy we were funding. you know, I began to see some resonances across these two projects. So yeah, you know, like early 2020s to now.

And so it was something I've been trying to work through around what was going on in California and then over the Biden administration as I began to think about what was going to be required to build all this green energy we were funding. you know, I began to see some resonances across these two projects. So yeah, you know, like early 2020s to now.

Yes. I have this line in one of the pieces. I did this piece that is actually partially in the book about what it takes to build affordable housing in Los Angeles, right? The housing that all of us on the left in theory agree on. What do we do when we trigger that public money? And there's a line in there that's like, the politics of this are, when do we want affordable housing? Now.

Yes. I have this line in one of the pieces. I did this piece that is actually partially in the book about what it takes to build affordable housing in Los Angeles, right? The housing that all of us on the left in theory agree on. What do we do when we trigger that public money? And there's a line in there that's like, the politics of this are, when do we want affordable housing? Now.

Where do we want it? Definitely somewhere else. I mean, not right here.

Where do we want it? Definitely somewhere else. I mean, not right here.

I do. And I want to say very clearly, because I do think sometimes people get this piece of it wrong, not the only cornerstone. Sure. There's a lot in the liberal agenda that we're just not trying to edit here, right? My view is that liberals have a lot of good ideas, and I've covered many of them over the years.

I do. And I want to say very clearly, because I do think sometimes people get this piece of it wrong, not the only cornerstone. Sure. There's a lot in the liberal agenda that we're just not trying to edit here, right? My view is that liberals have a lot of good ideas, and I've covered many of them over the years.

There's a funny... Reviews have a real quality of, we read the book not as a book is, but as we are. I'm sure I have done this as a reviewer, but there is – sometimes I'll read reviews and I know who's writing them. It's like this beautiful thing where it's like this book is great, great, great, great. Then right here, it diverges from my personal politics and that part isn't great at all.

There's a funny... Reviews have a real quality of, we read the book not as a book is, but as we are. I'm sure I have done this as a reviewer, but there is – sometimes I'll read reviews and I know who's writing them. It's like this beautiful thing where it's like this book is great, great, great, great. Then right here, it diverges from my personal politics and that part isn't great at all.