Ezra Klein

So you're like, here's a tax credit program to house homeless veterans, but then I need to like put in these particular things for homeless veterans and I need to find them. And here's another thing for survivors of domestic abuse and I get some money from that. And I was talking to people who work on affordable housing and they all said the same thing.

So you're like, here's a tax credit program to house homeless veterans, but then I need to like put in these particular things for homeless veterans and I need to find them. And here's another thing for survivors of domestic abuse and I get some money from that. And I was talking to people who work on affordable housing and they all said the same thing.

And I talked to the LA comptroller, a guy at that time named Ron Galperin. What he said to me is like, look, you would think I'd be all in favor of this. I'm the person watching LA's money.

And I talked to the LA comptroller, a guy at that time named Ron Galperin. What he said to me is like, look, you would think I'd be all in favor of this. I'm the person watching LA's money.

I am telling you this was absolutely insane because how much we slowed everything down as we were trying to show we were saving taxpayer money, we added that much cost just in what we were adding to the project. We made it not happen and we slowed it down and whatever. I want to say the core of this we were never doing. was trusting the civil servants. Right.

I am telling you this was absolutely insane because how much we slowed everything down as we were trying to show we were saving taxpayer money, we added that much cost just in what we were adding to the project. We made it not happen and we slowed it down and whatever. I want to say the core of this we were never doing. was trusting the civil servants. Right.

Like giving them the room to run, giving them money and saying, you spend it. And we're not going to audit you 27 times and run you in front of a hearing and yell at you. We're going to treat you like you're good at what you fucking do. And we're going to let you do it. And if the public doesn't like how this is all being managed, they can vote the mayor out in the next election.

Like giving them the room to run, giving them money and saying, you spend it. And we're not going to audit you 27 times and run you in front of a hearing and yell at you. We're going to treat you like you're good at what you fucking do. And we're going to let you do it. And if the public doesn't like how this is all being managed, they can vote the mayor out in the next election.

And you know, Elon Musk is saying this right now. Right. He keeps saying this. He says at a certain point, waste is indistinguishable from fraud and competence is indistinguishable from fraud. It's a line he keeps using on the right. And I don't like it because I think it like totally misunderstands the problem and his solution is terrible.

And you know, Elon Musk is saying this right now. Right. He keeps saying this. He says at a certain point, waste is indistinguishable from fraud and competence is indistinguishable from fraud. It's a line he keeps using on the right. And I don't like it because I think it like totally misunderstands the problem and his solution is terrible.

But his point on a certain level, that the way we are running the government has made the government incredibly wasteful. Right.

But his point on a certain level, that the way we are running the government has made the government incredibly wasteful. Right.

Yeah, I'll say it even simpler. The measure of government is the people it helps, not the processes it follows.

Yeah, I'll say it even simpler. The measure of government is the people it helps, not the processes it follows.

Bars.

Bars.

If you just really kept that in mind, if that was your only governing model and you just said to yourself, the only thing I wish liberals would learn from Musk is this kind of relentlessness of the middle, not lawlessness. And you're going to have to change a bunch of laws to do the kind of government you and I want to see happen.

If you just really kept that in mind, if that was your only governing model and you just said to yourself, the only thing I wish liberals would learn from Musk is this kind of relentlessness of the middle, not lawlessness. And you're going to have to change a bunch of laws to do the kind of government you and I want to see happen.

But this recognition that in the middle, you might make a lot of people upset. You're going to say no to a lot of people. It's going to be politically painful. And it's going to be worth it if you achieve the hard thing you're trying to achieve. The measure of government is outcomes, not process. And we treat government. And again, whole section on the book in this.

But this recognition that in the middle, you might make a lot of people upset. You're going to say no to a lot of people. It's going to be politically painful. And it's going to be worth it if you achieve the hard thing you're trying to achieve. The measure of government is outcomes, not process. And we treat government. And again, whole section on the book in this.