Ezra Klein

Liberal legalism has evolved in a way. where it believes government is legitimate based on the processes it follows. It is legitimate and also, by the way, protected from adversarial lawsuit if it can show that at every point it checked every single box.

Liberal legalism has evolved in a way. where it believes government is legitimate based on the processes it follows. It is legitimate and also, by the way, protected from adversarial lawsuit if it can show that at every point it checked every single box.

And the point of government is not to check the boxes. It's to help the people.

And the point of government is not to check the boxes. It's to help the people.

There very much is. And I do want to say to be fair that Democrats do this too. If you look at things like Obama's immigration executive actions, if you look at things like the student loan actions, Democrats are actually pretty good at this move as well. You go and you find a sort of – Emergency power. Vaguely written word in a law, right?

There very much is. And I do want to say to be fair that Democrats do this too. If you look at things like Obama's immigration executive actions, if you look at things like the student loan actions, Democrats are actually pretty good at this move as well. You go and you find a sort of – Emergency power. Vaguely written word in a law, right?

Like, yeah, we had something to deal with public health and now you're using it to change immigration law. Okay, but an interesting thing that I noticed while reporting our case studies here, and then I have this whole thing about Josh Shapiro and the I-95, and he uses an emergency declaration. This also happens around a recent disaster in Maryland with Wes Moore.

Like, yeah, we had something to deal with public health and now you're using it to change immigration law. Okay, but an interesting thing that I noticed while reporting our case studies here, and then I have this whole thing about Josh Shapiro and the I-95, and he uses an emergency declaration. This also happens around a recent disaster in Maryland with Wes Moore.

Then I was talking with Gavin Newsom on his podcast. He's like, you talked about the I-95. What about the I-10? We did that in 10 days. It wasn't even 12 days. Oh, my God. We were talking. I was like, if you guys are all so proud of the outcomes you get – I mean, now they're doing rapid rebuilding under emergency declarations after the fires.

Then I was talking with Gavin Newsom on his podcast. He's like, you talked about the I-95. What about the I-10? We did that in 10 days. It wasn't even 12 days. Oh, my God. We were talking. I was like, if you guys are all so proud of the outcomes you get – I mean, now they're doing rapid rebuilding under emergency declarations after the fires.

If you guys are all so proud of what you can do under these emergency authorities that wipe away all of this process – You can get these things done fast and people like it. I mean this is like the fundamental basis on which a lot of Shapiro's like political renown is built. He's not known so much for policies as he is for getting things done fast, right? His whole line is get shit done.

If you guys are all so proud of what you can do under these emergency authorities that wipe away all of this process – You can get these things done fast and people like it. I mean this is like the fundamental basis on which a lot of Shapiro's like political renown is built. He's not known so much for policies as he is for getting things done fast, right? His whole line is get shit done.

Well, then what does that say about the non-emergency procedures? When emergencies happen to me, I typically am not happy about them. I don't like it. I don't like it. I don't like what happens after it. I don't like what happens during it. I'm not saying they like the emergencies. They don't.

Well, then what does that say about the non-emergency procedures? When emergencies happen to me, I typically am not happy about them. I don't like it. I don't like it. I don't like what happens after it. I don't like what happens during it. I'm not saying they like the emergencies. They don't.

But the amount I am hearing governors, and as you sort of say at the federal level too, you see this, brag about what they can do when something triggers the emergency rules. That's right. Should actually make people really rethink The non-emergency rules, because also the public likes seeing things done fast. They're impressed. Look at that. Government rebuilt this in 12 days. Right.

But the amount I am hearing governors, and as you sort of say at the federal level too, you see this, brag about what they can do when something triggers the emergency rules. That's right. Should actually make people really rethink The non-emergency rules, because also the public likes seeing things done fast. They're impressed. Look at that. Government rebuilt this in 12 days. Right.

That shit's amazing.

That shit's amazing.

Yes, I say that, yeah, I have a line like this in the book, that emergencies are not just crises that happen fast. They are also crises that happen slow. Climate change is an emergency. It's actually a much bigger deal than part of a bridge fell down. We are not treating it as one. Ezra Klein, fantastic. John, I've loved this.

Yes, I say that, yeah, I have a line like this in the book, that emergencies are not just crises that happen fast. They are also crises that happen slow. Climate change is an emergency. It's actually a much bigger deal than part of a bridge fell down. We are not treating it as one. Ezra Klein, fantastic. John, I've loved this.