Ezra Klein

Sure.

Which is that for Democrats, for liberals, the politics of love that includes the person without health insurance, the immigrant family, the gay or lesbian or trans teen, the

is actually not usually, in this era, a stretch.

That's actually an intuitive politics for them.

But what Trump has very effectively weaponized is the belief many Americans have

that the only Americans Democrats don't love are Americans like them.

Americans who have views that are different than those that are usually voiced on this show.

Americans with a Christianity much more traditional than yours, who are uncomfortable with what our society is or has become or might one day become.

What is your politics of love for them, not for the people Democrats easily align with?

But actually of the people they now understand as maybe not their neighbor, as maybe their enemy, the people who, you know, when you see these polls about how Democrats are more likely to cut off a family member for political views than Republicans are, those people.

You are not the first person running for office to sit in front of me and tell me about a politics of love.

Good.

But the question I always ask and the question many people like that run aground on is what does that actually demand of you?

Because it can just be...

inspiring way to say what every other politician's already is doing also.

So where does it push you into something different?

I think something that your success and the way what you're saying breaks through suggests is that people are actually hungry for more moral leadership, including from political leaders.

This sense that our...

politics became managerial and technocratic and sanitized.

And that is, to use this word in another sense, it has been demoralizing to people.