Ezra Klein

I think this question of what is the purpose of all this is salient to politics as well.

And one thing I think that has been true is that we drafted in our society for a long time off of the fact that we had so many other healthy institutions and a more communal sense of who we were.

that infused our politics with purpose without anybody having to

necessarily reach that heart.

That's not to take away from the incredible moral fights that had to be waged.

But when I go back and I read old political tracks, how close the language of morality and spirituality and civic life is to people on all sides of debates is really noticeable.

We don't talk like that anymore.

We're trying to prove everything on a chart.

And I love a good chart, but it is a difference.

That's a bold claim.

That's my hot take here.

What do you mean by that?

He doesn't attend his... Well, he's pious to that religion.

He's very faithful to it.

I mean, yeah, you could look at the Oval Office as a...

quite a shrine to money or development.

The biggest concern I hear about you in Texas is that you're sort of a liberal's idea of what a Christian politician should be.

Yeah, okay.

In the primary, you had an opponent, Terry Virts.

He's since dropped out.