Ezra Klein

Do you see it as something new?

Is that something old?

Right, I'm agreeing with that.

I don't think there's anything that new about wanting to use medicine to be more well as opposed to heal from illness.

And we've been doing that forever.

And we've had health and wellness influencers forever.

But I think if you look around the mediascape at this exact moment and you think about how big Rogan and Huberman and Atiyah and then you have like Brian Johnson is one of the breakout media figures of the era, this sort of former entrepreneur who's trying to never die and is like the, you know, has like ended up in this incredibly, incredibly

intense regimen of optimization.

I'm very skeptical.

This is ultimately going to be good for him, but it's his life, I guess.

Clavicular, this look-maxer streamer who hits his head with a hammer and is on these crazy stacks and OD'd the other day on a live stream.

He's getting billions of views on his clips.

And I think there's something about the way, how dominant this has become in the media sphere.

And it doesn't have checks it used to have on it.

I mean, you were talking, I remember the coverage you would do at Vox of Dr. Oz.

But one of the things happening on Dr. Oz was like there was a network behind that.

I mean, there were gatekeepers.

There were people who didn't want to see their stock price go down if something went wrong.

And now it's a complete wild west boosted by algorithmic interest.

And I think it's going to push us into a real period of like a longevity and optimization focused world.