Ezra Klein

And that's one reason I think it's very dangerous, both as a question of media strategy, but also as a question of politics, to code people, places, platforms too tightly. Republicans and Democrats aren't going to get along in Congress. That has to do with, I think, the incentives of Congress. My first book is called Why We're Polarized.

It's about those almost hydraulic incentives for partisanship. But in terms of what is the meaning of my podcast, of Derek's, of yours, of Joe Rogan, of Theo Vaughn, of Call Her Daddy, of a million different places that are not well-coded. And that's, I think, very up for grabs. I mean, Elon Musk was an Obama era liberal in 2012.

It's about those almost hydraulic incentives for partisanship. But in terms of what is the meaning of my podcast, of Derek's, of yours, of Joe Rogan, of Theo Vaughn, of Call Her Daddy, of a million different places that are not well-coded. And that's, I think, very up for grabs. I mean, Elon Musk was an Obama era liberal in 2012.

It's about those almost hydraulic incentives for partisanship. But in terms of what is the meaning of my podcast, of Derek's, of yours, of Joe Rogan, of Theo Vaughn, of Call Her Daddy, of a million different places that are not well-coded. And that's, I think, very up for grabs. I mean, Elon Musk was an Obama era liberal in 2012.

I mean, I think his personal process of radicalization is not going to unwind itself. But a lot of the people who Democrats are like, all these billionaires are right wing now. No, people are just uncertain. I mean, some of them are a little bit afraid, but people are uncertain. They're moving back and forth. The sort of texture of it is unsettled. And it's going to take time.

I mean, I think his personal process of radicalization is not going to unwind itself. But a lot of the people who Democrats are like, all these billionaires are right wing now. No, people are just uncertain. I mean, some of them are a little bit afraid, but people are uncertain. They're moving back and forth. The sort of texture of it is unsettled. And it's going to take time.

I mean, I think his personal process of radicalization is not going to unwind itself. But a lot of the people who Democrats are like, all these billionaires are right wing now. No, people are just uncertain. I mean, some of them are a little bit afraid, but people are uncertain. They're moving back and forth. The sort of texture of it is unsettled. And it's going to take time.

These transitionary periods, I mean, they can go very badly, too. But they take time. And I think people who are clinging to old certainties about what tells you which side folks are on. My sense is a lot of people who are very open to MAGA in 2025 are going to feel very differently about it in 2028, depending on how they do. Right. If they do great, then they're going to entrench.

These transitionary periods, I mean, they can go very badly, too. But they take time. And I think people who are clinging to old certainties about what tells you which side folks are on. My sense is a lot of people who are very open to MAGA in 2025 are going to feel very differently about it in 2028, depending on how they do. Right. If they do great, then they're going to entrench.

These transitionary periods, I mean, they can go very badly, too. But they take time. And I think people who are clinging to old certainties about what tells you which side folks are on. My sense is a lot of people who are very open to MAGA in 2025 are going to feel very differently about it in 2028, depending on how they do. Right. If they do great, then they're going to entrench.

But if they don't, then a lot of people became MAGA curious are not going to be MAGA curious anymore. But they're not going to want the last Democratic Party either. Right. I was making this point to someone the other day about why the Democratic Party's embrace of the Liz Cheney-style independent didn't work. Liz Cheney, of course, being Dick Cheney's daughter, a Republican.

But if they don't, then a lot of people became MAGA curious are not going to be MAGA curious anymore. But they're not going to want the last Democratic Party either. Right. I was making this point to someone the other day about why the Democratic Party's embrace of the Liz Cheney-style independent didn't work. Liz Cheney, of course, being Dick Cheney's daughter, a Republican.

But if they don't, then a lot of people became MAGA curious are not going to be MAGA curious anymore. But they're not going to want the last Democratic Party either. Right. I was making this point to someone the other day about why the Democratic Party's embrace of the Liz Cheney-style independent didn't work. Liz Cheney, of course, being Dick Cheney's daughter, a Republican.

But what Liz Cheney, the Never Trumpers were, were a way of reaching out to who the Democratic Party thought the independents were. But the key thing about an independent to a political party is not that they don't like the other party. It's that they're an independent because they also don't like your party.

But what Liz Cheney, the Never Trumpers were, were a way of reaching out to who the Democratic Party thought the independents were. But the key thing about an independent to a political party is not that they don't like the other party. It's that they're an independent because they also don't like your party.

But what Liz Cheney, the Never Trumpers were, were a way of reaching out to who the Democratic Party thought the independents were. But the key thing about an independent to a political party is not that they don't like the other party. It's that they're an independent because they also don't like your party.

And so finding a bunch of people who are meant to be messengers to them about why they shouldn't like the other party, it's fine. But what you need to do is explain why they should like your party. You need to have some message. You need to accept some fault. You need to think about what it was about you that drove them away.

And so finding a bunch of people who are meant to be messengers to them about why they shouldn't like the other party, it's fine. But what you need to do is explain why they should like your party. You need to have some message. You need to accept some fault. You need to think about what it was about you that drove them away.

And so finding a bunch of people who are meant to be messengers to them about why they shouldn't like the other party, it's fine. But what you need to do is explain why they should like your party. You need to have some message. You need to accept some fault. You need to think about what it was about you that drove them away.

One of our deep views about politics right now, and not politics, policy, the texture of the economy of the country, is that the last period in American politics, in the economy, was about demand. The fundamental problem coming out of the financial crisis was demand. We had too little demand in the economy.