Ezra Klein

I agree that the lobbyist and the government affairs class are different. How are the two sides of the people who just vote for you, where do they diverge and where in your experience of your own constituency do they converge?

I agree that the lobbyist and the government affairs class are different. How are the two sides of the people who just vote for you, where do they diverge and where in your experience of your own constituency do they converge?

I mean, I take your point that there are people all over the spectrum, because they're right, this is true, who see a judicial system that works for some people very differently than it works for others, right? But you've got Donald Trump offering out pardons left and right. He is making God knows how much money off of what certainly seemed to me to be incredibly corrupt crypto schemes.

I mean, I take your point that there are people all over the spectrum, because they're right, this is true, who see a judicial system that works for some people very differently than it works for others, right? But you've got Donald Trump offering out pardons left and right. He is making God knows how much money off of what certainly seemed to me to be incredibly corrupt crypto schemes.

I wrote a book about political polarization. To me, some of this just reflects very different news sources and the tendency we all have to believe that the people on the other team are fundamentally corrupt, even evil. And the people on our team, it's understandable. These are old relationships. Maybe it's not as bad as you think.

I wrote a book about political polarization. To me, some of this just reflects very different news sources and the tendency we all have to believe that the people on the other team are fundamentally corrupt, even evil. And the people on our team, it's understandable. These are old relationships. Maybe it's not as bad as you think.

I guess I wonder if deleting the proper nouns from that can actually mislead. I think if you had gone from the Clinton email security fights in 2015, I guess it was, to where we are now with... Digital security under the Trump administration and the accessing of all these internal government databases and doing war plans on messaging apps. I don't think that's going to be a consistent line.

I guess I wonder if deleting the proper nouns from that can actually mislead. I think if you had gone from the Clinton email security fights in 2015, I guess it was, to where we are now with... Digital security under the Trump administration and the accessing of all these internal government databases and doing war plans on messaging apps. I don't think that's going to be a consistent line.

I think that's just partisanship reshaping people's brains.

I think that's just partisanship reshaping people's brains.

I agree with you on that. The Hunter Biden story, I have such, I think I'm scarred by past email security debates. But I think that's why I was asking about this moment with the economy because, look, so much in politics has no visible ground truth to people. We're arguing about these bizarre complex systems that are far away or stories we don't really know. What's ground truth?

I agree with you on that. The Hunter Biden story, I have such, I think I'm scarred by past email security debates. But I think that's why I was asking about this moment with the economy because, look, so much in politics has no visible ground truth to people. We're arguing about these bizarre complex systems that are far away or stories we don't really know. What's ground truth?

That you can't go and you can't feel it around you.

That you can't go and you can't feel it around you.

And... That's why I'm sort of interested in some of the debates about the economy, because I do think people have common ground in the economy. They might want a lot of things all at once, but they want, I think, a lot of what you're describing. They want to be able to have a good job. They want to have autonomy in that job. They want their children to be able to do well.

And... That's why I'm sort of interested in some of the debates about the economy, because I do think people have common ground in the economy. They might want a lot of things all at once, but they want, I think, a lot of what you're describing. They want to be able to have a good job. They want to have autonomy in that job. They want their children to be able to do well.

They want things to be affordable in the store and also for them to have good wages and for the factories to be open and the goods, but also to be plentiful. And so I guess one question I've had is that do you feel people shifting in one direction or another? Like, are things splitting apart for you in your district?

They want things to be affordable in the store and also for them to have good wages and for the factories to be open and the goods, but also to be plentiful. And so I guess one question I've had is that do you feel people shifting in one direction or another? Like, are things splitting apart for you in your district?

Or are they actually, as this becomes something real, you know, and people either worry about the tariffs or get excited about the tariffs, does it become more of one thing that you can work with and that you know its contours?

Or are they actually, as this becomes something real, you know, and people either worry about the tariffs or get excited about the tariffs, does it become more of one thing that you can work with and that you know its contours?