Ezra Klein

But I think that's why it's actually worth being. There are many things we can be talking about and losing and winning. Mm hmm. And I guess to define the topic that we're talking about here, what you are writing about in, is it happening here, right? The it is competitive authoritarianism. If you told me that what they're doing is,

But I think that's why it's actually worth being. There are many things we can be talking about and losing and winning. Mm hmm. And I guess to define the topic that we're talking about here, what you are writing about in, is it happening here, right? The it is competitive authoritarianism. If you told me that what they're doing is,

is they're in a mad rush to get as much of their agenda done as they possibly can before they lose the power to get it done in the future. And that, yes, American institutions will be affected by them. They decapitated USAID. They've decapitated the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau.

is they're in a mad rush to get as much of their agenda done as they possibly can before they lose the power to get it done in the future. And that, yes, American institutions will be affected by them. They decapitated USAID. They've decapitated the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau.

But in ways that a Democratic president could simply rebuild it immediately the moment they got into office, right? That is different from... They have structurally changed the flows of power, money, safety that allow for a fair election in the future. But, and this goes back to my piece, Don't Believe Him, the question of what people think is happening actually does affect what happens. Totally.

But in ways that a Democratic president could simply rebuild it immediately the moment they got into office, right? That is different from... They have structurally changed the flows of power, money, safety that allow for a fair election in the future. But, and this goes back to my piece, Don't Believe Him, the question of what people think is happening actually does affect what happens. Totally.

And look, if they can roll through American society with American society coming to the view that they cannot be stopped, then they will not be stopped. Whereas if people notice like, okay, when Harvard stood up, they sort of backed up. And we're like, I wish we had not made you stand up against us. Maybe we could go back to where we were a week ago and keep having that same conversation.

And look, if they can roll through American society with American society coming to the view that they cannot be stopped, then they will not be stopped. Whereas if people notice like, okay, when Harvard stood up, they sort of backed up. And we're like, I wish we had not made you stand up against us. Maybe we could go back to where we were a week ago and keep having that same conversation.

That's notable. And so that's, I think, where it's meaningful. Is what is happening in front of our face the consolidation of power? Or is it a flat-out rush to get done what they can get done before they lose power? What people think is happening will affect what is happening.

That's notable. And so that's, I think, where it's meaningful. Is what is happening in front of our face the consolidation of power? Or is it a flat-out rush to get done what they can get done before they lose power? What people think is happening will affect what is happening.

But the fact that he's been turned back on a bunch of this, they're not sending a bunch more people to the El Salvadoran prison at the moment. They've been like that authority got blocked for the moment. They're not sending them back either. They're not sending them back. But there are policies you can achieve and then the policy is done and there are powers you are claiming.

But the fact that he's been turned back on a bunch of this, they're not sending a bunch more people to the El Salvadoran prison at the moment. They've been like that authority got blocked for the moment. They're not sending them back either. They're not sending them back. But there are policies you can achieve and then the policy is done and there are powers you are claiming.

It does matter whether or not those authorities get entrenched. Sure. I guess what I'm saying is they can be... Can you use disappearance as a tactic is different than whether or not you've... And I'm as fucking hair on fire about the disappearances as anybody.

It does matter whether or not those authorities get entrenched. Sure. I guess what I'm saying is they can be... Can you use disappearance as a tactic is different than whether or not you've... And I'm as fucking hair on fire about the disappearances as anybody.

It's the Reagan-Clinton neoliberal order. And if anybody wants to get Gerstle Pilled, you can search in the archives of the show for our Gary Gerstle conversation right before the election.

It's the Reagan-Clinton neoliberal order. And if anybody wants to get Gerstle Pilled, you can search in the archives of the show for our Gary Gerstle conversation right before the election.

Well, here's a way in which it has happened. I mean, you wrote a whole book about the rise of an international reactionary right. Right. And to go to Andrew's nice line from earlier, we used to call it the alt-right, now we just call it the right. Right. One thing that seems completely clear, there's no snapback to an old Republican party. You look at 25-year-olds on the right.

Well, here's a way in which it has happened. I mean, you wrote a whole book about the rise of an international reactionary right. Right. And to go to Andrew's nice line from earlier, we used to call it the alt-right, now we just call it the right. Right. One thing that seems completely clear, there's no snapback to an old Republican party. You look at 25-year-olds on the right.

They are completely bought into a very extreme version of this, like the rising generation of MAGA. I mean, the guardrails are completely off. So in that way... it seems like the competition now is between some form of liberalism and some form of illiberalism. And that's definitely not going away. And like, maybe, you know, you survive this term, but then, you know, like, how do you see that?

They are completely bought into a very extreme version of this, like the rising generation of MAGA. I mean, the guardrails are completely off. So in that way... it seems like the competition now is between some form of liberalism and some form of illiberalism. And that's definitely not going away. And like, maybe, you know, you survive this term, but then, you know, like, how do you see that?