Ezra Klein

When you say it should be a positive agenda, what should that agenda look like?

When you say it should be a positive agenda, what should that agenda look like?

Let me ask you about the electric vehicle tax credits for a second, because let me try to give the best version of that argument as I understand it. People will buy many, many, many new cars over the next 10, 20, 30 years. Like, that's just baseline. We want there to be a big electric vehicle transition. We also want a lot of those electric vehicles to be made here.

Let me ask you about the electric vehicle tax credits for a second, because let me try to give the best version of that argument as I understand it. People will buy many, many, many new cars over the next 10, 20, 30 years. Like, that's just baseline. We want there to be a big electric vehicle transition. We also want a lot of those electric vehicles to be made here.

So when the Biden administration does this, they put pretty heavy tariffs, I mean, 100%, as I remember it, on Chinese electric vehicles, which are a major competitor, and they do a lot of investment in domestic supply chain on that. This sort of sounds to me in broad strokes like a policy you would like. It's not the only policy.

So when the Biden administration does this, they put pretty heavy tariffs, I mean, 100%, as I remember it, on Chinese electric vehicles, which are a major competitor, and they do a lot of investment in domestic supply chain on that. This sort of sounds to me in broad strokes like a policy you would like. It's not the only policy.

It doesn't take away from the question, you know, of a million things we could do to weatherize homes and make homes more efficient. But if we want to make it here... If we sort of want these cars that people buy and we expect on the margin, there's going to be a decision people make between combustion engines and electric wheels. We want them to be electric.

It doesn't take away from the question, you know, of a million things we could do to weatherize homes and make homes more efficient. But if we want to make it here... If we sort of want these cars that people buy and we expect on the margin, there's going to be a decision people make between combustion engines and electric wheels. We want them to be electric.

And we want to accelerate this technology so it gets cheaper more quickly. So it's not a decision only richer people can make. That's sort of how I map that policy out in my mind. What's sort of wrong with that logic to you?

And we want to accelerate this technology so it gets cheaper more quickly. So it's not a decision only richer people can make. That's sort of how I map that policy out in my mind. What's sort of wrong with that logic to you?

But most people do eventually. I mean, that's not a rare thing in this country for people to buy new cars.

But most people do eventually. I mean, that's not a rare thing in this country for people to buy new cars.

Tell me about some of the divisions over sort of these ideas or Trump in your district right now. You've had some very raucous town halls recently, and you've got these voters who are both the voters that Democrats win reliably and the voters that Republicans win reliably. Like you have a like a very you have a bigger coalition and a more complicated coalition behind you than most Democrats have.

Tell me about some of the divisions over sort of these ideas or Trump in your district right now. You've had some very raucous town halls recently, and you've got these voters who are both the voters that Democrats win reliably and the voters that Republicans win reliably. Like you have a like a very you have a bigger coalition and a more complicated coalition behind you than most Democrats have.

And you have urban and rural voters in your district. So how are the different constituents you come into contact with experiencing this moment differently?

And you have urban and rural voters in your district. So how are the different constituents you come into contact with experiencing this moment differently?

I mean, your position now is tricky. It's like there are a lot of Democrats who their marginal voter right now is absolutely furious. Their marginal voter is a Democrat, is somebody who might read the New York Times or listen to my podcast. And they just hate Trump. They hate what's going on. They don't see any good in it.

I mean, your position now is tricky. It's like there are a lot of Democrats who their marginal voter right now is absolutely furious. Their marginal voter is a Democrat, is somebody who might read the New York Times or listen to my podcast. And they just hate Trump. They hate what's going on. They don't see any good in it.

And all that person has to do is show up and tell them how bad everything is, and they're good. And your marginal voter is somebody who is at least open to this. Your marginal vote is somebody who maybe voted for Donald Trump. Who definitely voted for Donald Trump. Who definitely voted for Donald Trump. So put aside the people paid to talk to you, right?

And all that person has to do is show up and tell them how bad everything is, and they're good. And your marginal voter is somebody who is at least open to this. Your marginal vote is somebody who maybe voted for Donald Trump. Who definitely voted for Donald Trump. Who definitely voted for Donald Trump. So put aside the people paid to talk to you, right?