Ezra Klein

And all of a sudden, Donald Trump is talking about how we have too much cheap stuff in this country and kids shouldn't have all these dolls and we're too materialistic and we're not valuing the right things. And the Democratic Party and liberals in the Democratic Party become very pro-free trade, which is not their traditional stance. And you're watching this thing reorient really fast.

And all of a sudden, Donald Trump is talking about how we have too much cheap stuff in this country and kids shouldn't have all these dolls and we're too materialistic and we're not valuing the right things. And the Democratic Party and liberals in the Democratic Party become very pro-free trade, which is not their traditional stance. And you're watching this thing reorient really fast.

And I mean, Trump is good at that. He sort of reorients politics around him. But when you watch this and you talk about the Democratic Party becoming the party that is defensive of the line on the stock market, how have you just experienced this? Do you feel like your allies are changing?

And I mean, Trump is good at that. He sort of reorients politics around him. But when you watch this and you talk about the Democratic Party becoming the party that is defensive of the line on the stock market, how have you just experienced this? Do you feel like your allies are changing?

Do you feel – I guess I asked this in a way before, but do you feel like your critique is being hijacked for something that doesn't really serve it? There's something changing around you. I don't think you're changing that much, but something is changing around you. Yeah. And people are talking in a way they didn't speak before. How do you take it?

Do you feel – I guess I asked this in a way before, but do you feel like your critique is being hijacked for something that doesn't really serve it? There's something changing around you. I don't think you're changing that much, but something is changing around you. Yeah. And people are talking in a way they didn't speak before. How do you take it?

I guess what I'm asking you on this, though, because I don't buy it. I'm not sure if this is what you're saying, but the tariffs are going to matter to people. This is not some elite Washington fixation. I mean, your community is going to feel them like, you know, this much better.

I guess what I'm asking you on this, though, because I don't buy it. I'm not sure if this is what you're saying, but the tariffs are going to matter to people. This is not some elite Washington fixation. I mean, your community is going to feel them like, you know, this much better.

But you have to treat policy that he is proposing like it will.

But you have to treat policy that he is proposing like it will.

I mean, it might not stay if it is opposed in a certain way, but I think I'm asking, like, he is making an argument for these things that sounds, it's almost similar, like I take the stylized policy here as we should dramatically raise the price of every single good that comes into this country and really dramatically raise the price of goods from China.

I mean, it might not stay if it is opposed in a certain way, but I think I'm asking, like, he is making an argument for these things that sounds, it's almost similar, like I take the stylized policy here as we should dramatically raise the price of every single good that comes into this country and really dramatically raise the price of goods from China.

So we wean ourselves off a lot of cheap crap and we make it here. And if that means things cost more, And if that means you can't have things, good. Like it's time for you to like pick up, start making things here again, and like get over this neoliberal delusion that we can have, you know, everything shipped in from another continent at half price.

So we wean ourselves off a lot of cheap crap and we make it here. And if that means things cost more, And if that means you can't have things, good. Like it's time for you to like pick up, start making things here again, and like get over this neoliberal delusion that we can have, you know, everything shipped in from another continent at half price.

I mean, the tariffs will go up and they'll go down, but like, is that right? Is he right about, is he going about it wrong? Is he right on half of it? I mean, this is a big policy, right? This is not weirdo Washington stuff. Like we're all going to feel this. Like it's going to affect every store in the country.

I mean, the tariffs will go up and they'll go down, but like, is that right? Is he right about, is he going about it wrong? Is he right on half of it? I mean, this is a big policy, right? This is not weirdo Washington stuff. Like we're all going to feel this. Like it's going to affect every store in the country.

Tell me a bit more about what that looks like. I hear you on permitting reform. I mean, the argument the Biden administration used to make was we are trying to compete with China by building our capacity here. We'll put tariffs on a limited number of things from China, electric vehicles, batteries, solar panels, things like that.

Tell me a bit more about what that looks like. I hear you on permitting reform. I mean, the argument the Biden administration used to make was we are trying to compete with China by building our capacity here. We'll put tariffs on a limited number of things from China, electric vehicles, batteries, solar panels, things like that.

And we will invest a bunch in domestic manufacturing capacity and infrastructure. And that's going to get us where we need to go. Then you have Trump who says, no, what we need to do is actually just make the things unaffordable. And that's what's going to get us where we need to go. What would you keep from the two approaches or would you keep nothing from them?

And we will invest a bunch in domestic manufacturing capacity and infrastructure. And that's going to get us where we need to go. Then you have Trump who says, no, what we need to do is actually just make the things unaffordable. And that's what's going to get us where we need to go. What would you keep from the two approaches or would you keep nothing from them?