Ezra Klein

I think you're losing something profound. Something that you've been involved in recently is the revival of the Blue Dog Democrats. And I think for my younger audience who sort of doesn't remember the Blue Dogs of the 90s, that was sort of traditionally the more moderate Democratic coalition. And it may still be that now.

I think you're losing something profound. Something that you've been involved in recently is the revival of the Blue Dog Democrats. And I think for my younger audience who sort of doesn't remember the Blue Dogs of the 90s, that was sort of traditionally the more moderate Democratic coalition. And it may still be that now.

But the argument you all made, and I thought this was interesting, is that what you really want to bring back is localism. That politics has become too nationalized. Tell me a bit about that. I feel like this is actually pretty important to your politics, a sense that nationalization is maybe broken.

But the argument you all made, and I thought this was interesting, is that what you really want to bring back is localism. That politics has become too nationalized. Tell me a bit about that. I feel like this is actually pretty important to your politics, a sense that nationalization is maybe broken.

The way politics is supposed to work in one answer is going to be bringing back a localism that we've lost.

The way politics is supposed to work in one answer is going to be bringing back a localism that we've lost.

I think something that you have correctly criticized the Democratic Party for is a sort of politics of dignity and indignity where things that you value are not well valued by the party. But I think by, you know, cultural elites more broadly, when you talk about the physics major, you're to show how to hold a wrench. There is a valuing of office work and a devaluing of shop work.

I think something that you have correctly criticized the Democratic Party for is a sort of politics of dignity and indignity where things that you value are not well valued by the party. But I think by, you know, cultural elites more broadly, when you talk about the physics major, you're to show how to hold a wrench. There is a valuing of office work and a devaluing of shop work.

One thing I hear you saying is that in some ways we should reverse the moral hierarchy. That it's actually bad to have this sort of trash service that alienates you from your trash, right? It's kind of, it's okay for people to live in cities, but you gotta understand that we've probably gotten off track in a pretty profound way in modernity.

One thing I hear you saying is that in some ways we should reverse the moral hierarchy. That it's actually bad to have this sort of trash service that alienates you from your trash, right? It's kind of, it's okay for people to live in cities, but you gotta understand that we've probably gotten off track in a pretty profound way in modernity.

There are a lot of people in politics who I hear like their critique is very surface level. We should like change the dials on the tax code a little bit. When I listen to you, I hear something much more fundamental, a sense that we've gone off course in terms of what and who we value.

There are a lot of people in politics who I hear like their critique is very surface level. We should like change the dials on the tax code a little bit. When I listen to you, I hear something much more fundamental, a sense that we've gone off course in terms of what and who we value.

And the correction, I mean, stickers on home appliances is a good start to sort of tell people how long they last and what they cost. But there's something that has gone wrong to you, it seems to me, morally here. Is that fair or would you say I'm overreading you?

And the correction, I mean, stickers on home appliances is a good start to sort of tell people how long they last and what they cost. But there's something that has gone wrong to you, it seems to me, morally here. Is that fair or would you say I'm overreading you?

So this is why I started in this Trump quote, because something to me really interesting and strange is happening in politics and economic politics right now. Look, Donald Trump has been for decades the living, breathing embodiment of materialist excess. And Republicans probably have been quite free trade and very excited about cheap stuff from all over the world.

So this is why I started in this Trump quote, because something to me really interesting and strange is happening in politics and economic politics right now. Look, Donald Trump has been for decades the living, breathing embodiment of materialist excess. And Republicans probably have been quite free trade and very excited about cheap stuff from all over the world.

Democrats have been a little bit more, generally speaking, pro-tariff and a little bit more skeptical. And even during the campaign, Trump is running aggressively on the cost of living, how much everything costs, how much things would be at the Walmart.

Democrats have been a little bit more, generally speaking, pro-tariff and a little bit more skeptical. And even during the campaign, Trump is running aggressively on the cost of living, how much everything costs, how much things would be at the Walmart.

And as he's sort of layered on these tariffs, you've begun seeing this other argument that was sort of burbling around the edges of, I would call it the new right for a while, get more central.

And as he's sort of layered on these tariffs, you've begun seeing this other argument that was sort of burbling around the edges of, I would call it the new right for a while, get more central.