Ezra Klein

I almost forgot to mention the best part, Amy.

Free access to the Athletics World Cup coverage in our app.

I want to move to Texas.

Texas is so interesting right now.

James Tallarico, because I think he...

He reflects maybe something different than what we've been talking about.

He is the one case in which I think you can really see an attentional superstar who rose during this cycle, but did not rise because he was so far left or so far right.

He has, I mean, I had him here on the show.

It's a great interview.

People should go check it out.

He has bog-standard progressive politics.

Now, it is connected to a beautifully articulated Christian moral framework.

But he's somebody who has broken through intentionally, not by being very far left or very far right, not by choosing a highly controversial issue, but actually by front-loading a religiously rooted...

that in part got him on Joe Rogan's podcast and became the signal that maybe he could do something other Democrats couldn't and win Texas.

So I'm curious what you've made of him.

Again, I would start with the thing that we've been saying about a number of these people, including Plattner and I think Abdel-Sayed, is that he's charismatic, again, in the ancient Greek sense.

And I think, obviously, the sort of pastoral tradition that he's coming out of

means that he's both naturally charismatic and also has access to a set of rhetorical tools that have been developed literally over thousands of years to grab and hold people's attention.

Right.

So I think that's a huge part of what's going on.