Ezra Klein

in terms of what we value in the people who participate in the economy. And on the other hand, it's yoked to this sometimes almost random seeming set of economic policies. And so I've just been curious how you're processing this. Like, do these feel like people sort of allied in thinking about where we've gone wrong?

in terms of what we value in the people who participate in the economy. And on the other hand, it's yoked to this sometimes almost random seeming set of economic policies. And so I've just been curious how you're processing this. Like, do these feel like people sort of allied in thinking about where we've gone wrong?

Do they feel like people who are like hijacked arguments you make for something completely different? Like when you think about that economic philosophy that you've been trying to push in Washington, how have you processed both the sort of overlaps and the contradictions?

Do they feel like people who are like hijacked arguments you make for something completely different? Like when you think about that economic philosophy that you've been trying to push in Washington, how have you processed both the sort of overlaps and the contradictions?

Well, maybe we want contradictory things. I think on the economy specifically, I think we want plentiful cheap goods and And I think we want the self-determination, the resilience, an economy that values and rewards production in exactly the way you say. And I always think of one of the real problems for politics as being the collision of those two things.

Well, maybe we want contradictory things. I think on the economy specifically, I think we want plentiful cheap goods and And I think we want the self-determination, the resilience, an economy that values and rewards production in exactly the way you say. And I always think of one of the real problems for politics as being the collision of those two things.

People want policies that will get us to that self-determination and sovereignty. But then, I mean, we saw this a bit during the Biden administration. If you begin to see the price of things at the grocery store go up, people get pissed real quick.

People want policies that will get us to that self-determination and sovereignty. But then, I mean, we saw this a bit during the Biden administration. If you begin to see the price of things at the grocery store go up, people get pissed real quick.

One thing that I think always is challenging this discussion is, is what people buy the signal for what they want? Or is what they will say in a deeper conversation the signal for what they want?

One thing that I think always is challenging this discussion is, is what people buy the signal for what they want? Or is what they will say in a deeper conversation the signal for what they want?

Do you think of these as economic policy arguments or arguments that are almost more moral and spiritual in nature?

Do you think of these as economic policy arguments or arguments that are almost more moral and spiritual in nature?

And when you think of the cities and you represent partially a city, like they're not going to work without trash pickup. You know, I'm not necessarily here to defend single cup yogurt servings.

And when you think of the cities and you represent partially a city, like they're not going to work without trash pickup. You know, I'm not necessarily here to defend single cup yogurt servings.

But some of this is a kind of marvel of modernity that does have remarkable benefits and has allowed us to live in different ways and ways that are look like I have this sort of distinction to sometimes make between green and gray environmentalism. And there's ways of living deeply in harmony with the world around you.

But some of this is a kind of marvel of modernity that does have remarkable benefits and has allowed us to live in different ways and ways that are look like I have this sort of distinction to sometimes make between green and gray environmentalism. And there's ways of living deeply in harmony with the world around you.

And then there's ways of living that are very unharmonious with the world around you aesthetically, but they're actually quite light footprint. Living in a pretty tall high rise is in many ways quite good for the environment because you just have a lot more economies of scale in the heating and a bunch of other things.

And then there's ways of living that are very unharmonious with the world around you aesthetically, but they're actually quite light footprint. Living in a pretty tall high rise is in many ways quite good for the environment because you just have a lot more economies of scale in the heating and a bunch of other things.

I very much take the point that you don't want trash service to move to a city. And I think that that's totally fair. But what do you think and how do you talk to your constituents who do?

I very much take the point that you don't want trash service to move to a city. And I think that that's totally fair. But what do you think and how do you talk to your constituents who do?