Ezra Klein

I'm not sure we have rooted out the patronage and corruption, but we've definitely created the slowness. Something seems wrong here in the equilibrium.

I'm not sure we have rooted out the patronage and corruption, but we've definitely created the slowness. Something seems wrong here in the equilibrium.

This goes, I think, to your idea of mission-driven politics, that there are these periods when we agree on a mission. Usually it's a war, but not that long ago it was a pandemic. And all of a sudden, we snap into a different mode. And it's a cliche in Congress and in politics, oh, we act during emergencies.

This goes, I think, to your idea of mission-driven politics, that there are these periods when we agree on a mission. Usually it's a war, but not that long ago it was a pandemic. And all of a sudden, we snap into a different mode. And it's a cliche in Congress and in politics, oh, we act during emergencies.

And then you think, well, is climate change not an emergency that maybe we need to think about how we're acting during? But it's raised for me this ongoing question of, on the one hand, you don't want everything done under an emergency declaration. Your normal rules should be good rules. And on the other hand, I've had sort of the same question I think that you're raising.

And then you think, well, is climate change not an emergency that maybe we need to think about how we're acting during? But it's raised for me this ongoing question of, on the one hand, you don't want everything done under an emergency declaration. Your normal rules should be good rules. And on the other hand, I've had sort of the same question I think that you're raising.

I'd be curious what you've concluded about it, which is how do you snap the system into more of a different mode? I feel like Donald Trump has come in and shown you can do it through will. I mean, I'm not happy about what he's doing or why he's doing it, but the boundaries that everybody else seemed to respect have been norms, right? Where have you come to on this?

I'd be curious what you've concluded about it, which is how do you snap the system into more of a different mode? I feel like Donald Trump has come in and shown you can do it through will. I mean, I'm not happy about what he's doing or why he's doing it, but the boundaries that everybody else seemed to respect have been norms, right? Where have you come to on this?

I think that's the place to end. So always a final question, what are three books you recommend to the audience? And Zephyr, why don't we begin with you?

I think that's the place to end. So always a final question, what are three books you recommend to the audience? And Zephyr, why don't we begin with you?

Shreka Chakraborty, set for Teach Out. Thank you very much.

Shreka Chakraborty, set for Teach Out. Thank you very much.

Thanks. This episode of the Ezra Klein Show is produced by Roland Hu and Jack McCordick. Fact-checking by Michelle Harris with Kate Sinclair and Mary Marge Locker. Our senior engineer is Jeff Gelb with additional mixing by Amin Sahota and Isaac Jones. Our executive producer is Claire Gordon.

Thanks. This episode of the Ezra Klein Show is produced by Roland Hu and Jack McCordick. Fact-checking by Michelle Harris with Kate Sinclair and Mary Marge Locker. Our senior engineer is Jeff Gelb with additional mixing by Amin Sahota and Isaac Jones. Our executive producer is Claire Gordon.

The show's production team also includes Marie Cassione, Annie Galvin, Elias Isquith, Marina King, Jan Kobel, and Kristen Lin. We have original music by Pat McCusker, audience strategy by Christina Samieluski, and Shannon Busta. The director of New York Times Opinion Audio is Annie Rose Strasser.

The show's production team also includes Marie Cassione, Annie Galvin, Elias Isquith, Marina King, Jan Kobel, and Kristen Lin. We have original music by Pat McCusker, audience strategy by Christina Samieluski, and Shannon Busta. The director of New York Times Opinion Audio is Annie Rose Strasser.

I always enjoy conversations that I have no earthly idea how to describe. And today's is very much in that vein. My guest is my colleague, Ross Douthat. He's the author of Believe Why Everyone Should Be Religious, a book I enjoyed very much, even though quite a bit of it I had some questions about.

I always enjoy conversations that I have no earthly idea how to describe. And today's is very much in that vein. My guest is my colleague, Ross Douthat. He's the author of Believe Why Everyone Should Be Religious, a book I enjoyed very much, even though quite a bit of it I had some questions about.

And he's the host of the new and really excellent New York Times Opinion podcast, Interesting Times, where he has been interviewing people on the modern American right. This is a conversation about mysticism and the role it is playing in the Trump administration and this era in politics.

And he's the host of the new and really excellent New York Times Opinion podcast, Interesting Times, where he has been interviewing people on the modern American right. This is a conversation about mysticism and the role it is playing in the Trump administration and this era in politics.