Ezra Klein

And, you know, this is not such an unusual experience, but it shifted my thinking from solving a problem to being within it.

You talked earlier about

Well, you know, it's funny.

This is a lesson I learned not just from Joan, but from my wife, who's an artist, Judith.

And, you know, she was lecturing me about, you know, not knowing has its own power.

And of course, it is an idea to cultivate the don't know mind.

And she's right.

It does have a power.

And that not knowing opens you in a way that knowing closes you down.

And that we're very frustrated with not knowing.

But it is the state, it is our existential predicament about many, many things.

And getting comfortable with it, I mean, it was a long way to go for me to get comfortable with it.

But getting comfortable with it, yes, more awe, more wonder in the face of mystery.

Three books for you.

Well, a book that was really influential in the writing of this book is a book called The Blind Spot.

It's by a philosopher, Evan Thompson, and two physicists, Adam Frank and Marcelo Gleiser.

It's a critique of Western science.

And it makes a very powerful case that the blind spot of the physical sciences is inability to deal with lived experience.

And so for science, you know, red is a certain frequency, and red to them is an illusion because it's constructed in the brain.

But they're pointing out that humans who experience red is a fact of nature like any other fact of nature, and you've got to deal with it.