Ezra Klein

And you're going to start paying us. You're going to start paying more for defense. One of the things Moran said is that one way they could be in our good graces is just to cut a check to the treasury, just like make a donation to the U.S. government for the privilege of using our defense system or our financial system. But what we are going to start doing is squeezing.

And you're going to start paying us. You're going to start paying more for defense. One of the things Moran said is that one way they could be in our good graces is just to cut a check to the treasury, just like make a donation to the U.S. government for the privilege of using our defense system or our financial system. But what we are going to start doing is squeezing.

We are going to say, and they have told me this directly, we have leverage. We have all this leverage that these idiots like Biden and Obama and Bush were not using. We've been taken advantage of in deal after deal forever, and now we're gonna start using our leverage. We're gonna start squeezing.

We are going to say, and they have told me this directly, we have leverage. We have all this leverage that these idiots like Biden and Obama and Bush were not using. We've been taken advantage of in deal after deal forever, and now we're gonna start using our leverage. We're gonna start squeezing.

And if you wanna trade with us, if you wanna be on the dollar, and you better fucking be on the dollar, you are gonna be giving us some kind of better deal than you're giving us now. Maybe you give us a check. Maybe you give us a better trade deal. Maybe you spend more on defense. Maybe it's something else.

And if you wanna trade with us, if you wanna be on the dollar, and you better fucking be on the dollar, you are gonna be giving us some kind of better deal than you're giving us now. Maybe you give us a check. Maybe you give us a better trade deal. Maybe you spend more on defense. Maybe it's something else.

But you better come cut a deal and pay some kind of tribute that you're not currently paying, whoever you are, even if you're an island full of penguins. And taking that case at its strongest, Right now, there's not a very good global alternative to the dollar. Nobody else is really a good option.

But you better come cut a deal and pay some kind of tribute that you're not currently paying, whoever you are, even if you're an island full of penguins. And taking that case at its strongest, Right now, there's not a very good global alternative to the dollar. Nobody else is really a good option.

But the thing that I see is that even if it worked in the short term, even if everybody comes to us and bends the knee because they don't want to be driven into a recession, you know, Japan makes a deal with us, the UK makes a deal with us, France makes a deal with us, Brazil makes a deal with us, India makes a deal with us, the Philippines make a deal with us, Vietnam makes some deal with us, that the signal we've sent to everybody

But the thing that I see is that even if it worked in the short term, even if everybody comes to us and bends the knee because they don't want to be driven into a recession, you know, Japan makes a deal with us, the UK makes a deal with us, France makes a deal with us, Brazil makes a deal with us, India makes a deal with us, the Philippines make a deal with us, Vietnam makes some deal with us, that the signal we've sent to everybody

is that being on our system is incredibly dangerous for you. Because at any moment, we might decide to squeeze your throat. And you're gonna have to give us something. You don't even understand what it is right now. The terms of the deal are unclear and can change at any time under any administration. And what you create then is a credible pressure to get the hell off of our system.

is that being on our system is incredibly dangerous for you. Because at any moment, we might decide to squeeze your throat. And you're gonna have to give us something. You don't even understand what it is right now. The terms of the deal are unclear and can change at any time under any administration. And what you create then is a credible pressure to get the hell off of our system.

Maybe you can't do it tomorrow. You can't do it even in a year. but you can start to do things over five or 10 years.

Maybe you can't do it tomorrow. You can't do it even in a year. but you can start to do things over five or 10 years.

Tell me the story. In terms of things that have affected the dollar and what we've seen in the dollar's value and what we've seen in other countries responding, what did they do that was consequential? How would you tell the story as an economic historian trying to track what has been important in this period?

Tell me the story. In terms of things that have affected the dollar and what we've seen in the dollar's value and what we've seen in other countries responding, what did they do that was consequential? How would you tell the story as an economic historian trying to track what has been important in this period?

You might not like NAFTA, but Bernie Sanders has never proposed a tariff system like this. Yeah, but what was he... Okay, the whole... Trump has had his views on trade since Japan in the 80s. He didn't need Bernie Sanders to teach him that. If you go back to what he was saying about Japan, it's the same thing he's saying now.

You might not like NAFTA, but Bernie Sanders has never proposed a tariff system like this. Yeah, but what was he... Okay, the whole... Trump has had his views on trade since Japan in the 80s. He didn't need Bernie Sanders to teach him that. If you go back to what he was saying about Japan, it's the same thing he's saying now.

Something you're saying that I just want to validate through my own reporting is I've talked to a bunch of people who are significant market participants, is maybe the way I'll put it. And they are definitely working off of the idea that in a year, the tariffs are going to be much lower than they are today. Not a little bit lower. More stable. Not the same.

Something you're saying that I just want to validate through my own reporting is I've talked to a bunch of people who are significant market participants, is maybe the way I'll put it. And they are definitely working off of the idea that in a year, the tariffs are going to be much lower than they are today. Not a little bit lower. More stable. Not the same.