Ezra Klein

Matt Iglesias had a piece today about the way a lot of his Hitler revisionism is beginning to happen out of a kind of feeling that we have – over-penalized questions about race, questions of antisemitism, and that in order to widen the boundaries of debate, you have to have on World War II revisionists. And there's a sense that this sort of politics of manners didn't work.

Matt Iglesias had a piece today about the way a lot of his Hitler revisionism is beginning to happen out of a kind of feeling that we have – over-penalized questions about race, questions of antisemitism, and that in order to widen the boundaries of debate, you have to have on World War II revisionists. And there's a sense that this sort of politics of manners didn't work.

And so politics of no manners needs to be tried now. And I think Donald Trump has sort of been an innovator and a pioneer in that. And it's created a lot of mimetic imitators who on the one hand don't have some of his, I don't know, lightness or authenticity or funniness. But on the other, it's just that

And so politics of no manners needs to be tried now. And I think Donald Trump has sort of been an innovator and a pioneer in that. And it's created a lot of mimetic imitators who on the one hand don't have some of his, I don't know, lightness or authenticity or funniness. But on the other, it's just that

I think I am weirdly, even though I'm not myself religious, a little bit idealistic about religion. I feel it's about my own religion, which I think should create very profound sympathy for refugees. And that has not been something I've seen in the past couple of years.

I think I am weirdly, even though I'm not myself religious, a little bit idealistic about religion. I feel it's about my own religion, which I think should create very profound sympathy for refugees. And that has not been something I've seen in the past couple of years.

And I think it's a Christianity where it feels like it should create a kind of buffer against greed and cruelty that I often see broken when it would be politically viable to break in.

And I think it's a Christianity where it feels like it should create a kind of buffer against greed and cruelty that I often see broken when it would be politically viable to break in.

I'm a Christian. I'm right here.

I'm a Christian. I'm right here.

Well, I am unconvinced on parts. We'll talk about the view of the cosmos in a minute. Sure. And I'm not trying to offend you here. I'm actually asking.

Well, I am unconvinced on parts. We'll talk about the view of the cosmos in a minute. Sure. And I'm not trying to offend you here. I'm actually asking.

Look, I don't think a thing I'm saying here is going to convince somebody on the Christian right to turn around their view of Donald Trump. I am genuinely curious how somebody of your politics and your religious background interprets somebody like J.D. Vance. I'm asking you questions about it.

Look, I don't think a thing I'm saying here is going to convince somebody on the Christian right to turn around their view of Donald Trump. I am genuinely curious how somebody of your politics and your religious background interprets somebody like J.D. Vance. I'm asking you questions about it.

Neuralink is...

Neuralink is...

So a big part of your book, as I read it, is about what happens when elite society becomes hostile in its view of the world to the human impulse to seek a picture of reality that runs deeper than materialism. What happens when the seekers have nowhere to go, when organized religion weakens, or not nowhere to go? What happens when they're not channeled into organized religion?

So a big part of your book, as I read it, is about what happens when elite society becomes hostile in its view of the world to the human impulse to seek a picture of reality that runs deeper than materialism. What happens when the seekers have nowhere to go, when organized religion weakens, or not nowhere to go? What happens when they're not channeled into organized religion?

And what happens when elite society becomes too materialistic? And I understand for you, and you can tell me if this is wrong, that one of the forces I think that you believe is driving the era is a kind of frustrated seeking, right? a sort of desire to re-enchant the world that has run into an elite culture. Maybe it's Apex being the Obama administration and that sort of moment in American life.

And what happens when elite society becomes too materialistic? And I understand for you, and you can tell me if this is wrong, that one of the forces I think that you believe is driving the era is a kind of frustrated seeking, right? a sort of desire to re-enchant the world that has run into an elite culture. Maybe it's Apex being the Obama administration and that sort of moment in American life.