Ezra Klein

We are trying to align the markets alongside a political vision. Do you agree with the premise that in any given instance, money is often fractious? It's not one thing or trying to achieve one thing. Some of it may be on the side of a project you like, some of it against.

We are trying to align the markets alongside a political vision. Do you agree with the premise that in any given instance, money is often fractious? It's not one thing or trying to achieve one thing. Some of it may be on the side of a project you like, some of it against.

I don't believe, even if I would like to get money out of politics, we're going to get money out of politics in a full-on way and end oligarchy on the pace we need to decarbonize. We have to build things in the next couple of years. Donald Trump is now the biggest problem with this. But nevertheless, even if Kamala Harris had won the election, we would still be in this condition.

I don't believe, even if I would like to get money out of politics, we're going to get money out of politics in a full-on way and end oligarchy on the pace we need to decarbonize. We have to build things in the next couple of years. Donald Trump is now the biggest problem with this. But nevertheless, even if Kamala Harris had won the election, we would still be in this condition.

The theory you offered earlier was that money slows politics down.

The theory you offered earlier was that money slows politics down.

And what I am saying, what I've seen in many things I have covered, money sometimes wants to speed things up. It sometimes wants to slow it down. It sometimes wants to build. It sometimes doesn't. There are developers that want to build housing. There are other moneyed interests that maybe don't, right?

And what I am saying, what I've seen in many things I have covered, money sometimes wants to speed things up. It sometimes wants to slow it down. It sometimes wants to build. It sometimes doesn't. There are developers that want to build housing. There are other moneyed interests that maybe don't, right?

And so that there's something here that it's not just the fault of money in politics because there's money on all sides of the issues, that there's something else going on that if we want to be able to build these things fast, we're going to have to take it at a systemic level. And the interests around that are going to be fractious and not and not unified. We have to make choices.

And so that there's something here that it's not just the fault of money in politics because there's money on all sides of the issues, that there's something else going on that if we want to be able to build these things fast, we're going to have to take it at a systemic level. And the interests around that are going to be fractious and not and not unified. We have to make choices.

And I was living in a flop house in Vermont.

And I was living in a flop house in Vermont.

So, Shoykat, this makes me think about your leadership point. One of the things I've observed covering a lot of fights in Washington, I would say over time, the leadership of the Democratic Party, became less and less willing to offend almost anybody who it considered in its coalition. Its coalition was vast, right?

So, Shoykat, this makes me think about your leadership point. One of the things I've observed covering a lot of fights in Washington, I would say over time, the leadership of the Democratic Party, became less and less willing to offend almost anybody who it considered in its coalition. Its coalition was vast, right?

Its coalition stretching from Reid Hoffman and the General Counsel of Microsoft on the one side to all kinds of like environmental justice groups on the other side. And I'm not saying literally no one ever got offended. But as I sort of like watched the procession from like the Obama era to the sort of Hillary Clinton campaign to the Biden-Harris era,

Its coalition stretching from Reid Hoffman and the General Counsel of Microsoft on the one side to all kinds of like environmental justice groups on the other side. And I'm not saying literally no one ever got offended. But as I sort of like watched the procession from like the Obama era to the sort of Hillary Clinton campaign to the Biden-Harris era,

and saw this in Congress too, it felt like as a matter of cultural, the governance culture, it wanted to run everything by everybody. And not literally anybody getting upset was an emergency, but the leadership became less and less tolerant. of anybody being upset. Everybody had to get a little bit. You were in Congress.

and saw this in Congress too, it felt like as a matter of cultural, the governance culture, it wanted to run everything by everybody. And not literally anybody getting upset was an emergency, but the leadership became less and less tolerant. of anybody being upset. Everybody had to get a little bit. You were in Congress.

You ran AOC's first campaign, so you were part of the Let's Piss People Off caucus. I'm curious, one, if what I just said feels true to you, and two... what your sort of account of it is, like what you saw from it and what you think is behind that culture, which seems much more dominant now on the left than on the, you know, like break every single egg of the global economy, right?

You ran AOC's first campaign, so you were part of the Let's Piss People Off caucus. I'm curious, one, if what I just said feels true to you, and two... what your sort of account of it is, like what you saw from it and what you think is behind that culture, which seems much more dominant now on the left than on the, you know, like break every single egg of the global economy, right?