Family Member

I won't. And I didn't.

I felt like I couldn't give up hope. Giving up hope would have been giving up on her. I couldn't do that.

It's very scary. This is such a quiet neighborhood. We keep our doors locked.

I'm shocked, but I'm not surprised.

Why didn't it happen to me? Would it have happened to me if I had stayed? What would have happened?

When I got the phone call that he had been arrested for this crime... I believe my first words were, I'm shocked, but I'm not surprised.

I met him for the first time when I began waiting tables, cocktail waitressing actually. He was sort of the house DJ. He was very shy. Everyone knew who he was because he had made a good name for himself in our little small town.

When we first started dating, it was fun. It was exciting. It was dangerous. He was married. He was the cool DJ. After we kind of had settled into our relationship, he became very jealous. He became very possessive.

Would just quietly say, you're worthless. Those red flags started to come up more often. The insults, the put downs, the controlling behavior.

He caught me smoking and sort of drug me back inside from outside, reading me the riot act, saying, since you can't sort of abide by the rules, you're going to clean the kitchen floor. I felt horrible. I felt demeaned. I felt scared.

I had worn sandals with socks out to dinner, and that was something that he totally hated. And he sent me to the car to sit in the car while everyone else had dinner. I started thinking about how I was going to exit the relationship at that point.

So then my mind went to, why didn't it happen to me? Would it have happened to me if I had stayed? I truly believe that his relationships with women were not healthy.

It's been such a long time. I mean, a lot of people have worked hard on this. I don't doubt anything they did, but to find out this is how we're gonna find the person who did this, it's just amazing. We thank you.

They sent us some DNA from a reference sample.

She came downstairs and she said, Chrissy didn't show up for work.

I was devastated.

Giving up hope that they would find the person that did this would have been giving up on her

And Arm & Hammer power sheets deliver an effective clean at a great price. Think of all the laundry we'll do.

He said it was probably in our best interest, not the viewer, just remember how she was.

He said it was probably in our best interest, not the viewer.

His problem is he's clueless. He has no concept of what is really going on right now.

This is the humble abode.

You don't know your social security number?

He just was slow in some motor skills even. I could tell that Dylan would not stay focused.

I just see someone being bullied into saying something they didn't do. I think that he was just trying to get through it.

I was told that I would not be able to contact him or he would not be able to contact me. I think safe house was more the word that they used because Dylan was their precious cargo. He was the key witness and he had to be protected. I had no idea where he was going. They told me that they would buy him all new clothes, that he might get to work a little.

I know my boys, they're drug addicts. They're not murderers.

How old is he in this one? Looks like it's probably his first Christmas, so he'd be about, probably about a month old.

Yeah, here's some of his home run balls.

We was very surprised, and Shane was too when he called us that day. He said, hey, they just come down here rolling down through here and searched my trailer and brought the dogs. And he was, you could tell he was surprised.

We heard that he was trying to take a picture of her and pretending like he was talking on the phone. But now Shane only had a flip phone, so I don't think he could hold that flip phone up to your head and take a picture of somebody else.

He was one of the first boy children in our family. He liked football. He liked baseball. He liked playing cards. He was very competitive. He was my partner in card playing because we're the only two that could get along. His dad plays for fun and we play to win. So we couldn't get along, but we could at cards because we understood what we wanted from each other.

He always wanted to make us happy and make us proud.

He needed more and more pain medicine. And then's when I think we really knew he had a problem.

He was addicted to morphine. And that's what I told the TBI guy when he come to the gate down there. I said, hey, if she'd been made of morphine, I'd said you'd come to the right place. But no, no way.

You don't think your son had anything to do with it?

You would have to know Shane. He was kind. He likes dogs. He loves his dog. And...

He would pick up strays. He didn't even like to shoot deer, okay? He wanted to be a deer hunter, but he didn't really want to shoot a deer. So I just, I don't believe that for one minute.

That is a far step for somebody that's, I know Shane had a lot of traffic violations and some stuff, but that's a big step. To go from... And take a life. To take a life.

If you don't do it, they're going to arrest him. They've done told me they're going to arrest him. And he said it's going to cost money. 60 plus thousands of dollars. So us three, we talked and we agreed.

If they wasn't here, they was calling him, harassing him. So we didn't have any peace. I mean, the people that's dealing this thing have a lot of power.

People didn't want to have nothing to do with him. He was pretty much ostracized in this community.

That's when he got bad again. I don't know if it was them calling him or whatever, but anyway, his drug use... just escalated, and that's from that. And Christmas was the last time we seen each other.

Our life will never be normal again. Karen Bobo's life will never be normal again, or Dana's. Like I said, this has affected so many lives.

Well, if he was going to take his life over guilt, do you think it would have happened that many years past? But I'm probably going to say he lost his job. He was coming back home to live with his mom and dad, flat broke, addicted to drugs. That's kind of what I think. But, you know, there wasn't a note. I don't believe for one minute that it had anything to do with Holly Bobo's, him killing her.

He would have a hard time completing a simple task.

Maybe a little slow in reading, comprehending, things like that. His grandfather, Dick Adams, agrees.

This is not right. Something's going on here.

When we were there, we looked for their car. We, you know, walked around a couple of blocks. It's kind of where they would park. Couldn't find their car.

And we went over to the dinghy dock, and this well-deserved dinghy was there. It wasn't properly tied. And I just told Jim, I go, you know, this is not right. Something's going on here.

As we came up on the boat, I noticed that the tarps were all off, all the controls were just kind of peeled back, and there was a towel hanging out one of the portholes. And I got a sick feeling in my stomach, just like something wasn't right.

And he was in the Power Rangers.

Welcome to the 2020 True Crime Vault, where heart-stopping headlines come to life.

Wait for daddy on the table.

Who's ready for Christmas?

Yes! Yes! Yes! Yes! Happy birthday, dear Kevin.

Happy birthday, Kevin.

Come on back down the street.

You've been listening to the 2020 True Crime Vault. You can find all new broadcast episodes of 2020 Friday nights at 9 on ABC.

Kevin, look what you got.

Like a family. What's going on here?

Can you tell me anything about him at all, Bart? Did he sound black, white, Hispanic?

April's friends and family were devastated. And they felt like it was a slap in the face. But the people who support Jim Kaufman say, you know, he's a widow. And he's moving on with his life.

I don't think there was an empty seat.

It could brighten any room. It was a very sad service knowing that she wasn't going to be back. Just like any parent loves their child, James was devastated James will not have any grandchildren. James will not be able to give his daughter a hug ever again because of this creep.

The two of them were well known individually as well as together. They really wanted to be involved in the community. They also like to have some fun.

Investigators say that same day they seized more weapons from Kaufman and at least $100,000 in cash. That was a game changer.

We believe there are other victims in other states. We are continuing our efforts to identify those victims. We have been analyzing financial records, travel records, any other records that are available to us over the last several years.

I'm Jennifer Currier. I'm Bill Currier's baby sister. He didn't have kids, so it was always his nieces and nephews. He loved his nieces and nephews a lot. He was planning on a family reunion that summer. He loved his house. He picked that area because the neighborhood was beautiful. It was safe. He wanted his wife to be safe.

And of course, as a family member, you already know that there's foul play.

As the media got there and they started to realize who it was, that's when they knew, okay, this is really a story. It was chaos.

Er wurde sehr wütend. Es war eine unabhängige Entscheidung. Wir wollten sie nicht hier haben.

Untertitelung des ZDF, 2020

I've driven this road at least a thousand times when I was a kid. I avoid this place since 1990. When my sister Tanya Bennett was murdered here.

This episode is brought to you by Amazon Prime. From streaming to shopping, Prime helps you get more out of your passions. So whether you're a fan of true crime or prefer a nail-biting novel from time to time, with services like Prime Video, Amazon Music, and fast free delivery, Prime makes it easy to get more out of whatever you're into or getting into. Visit Amazon.com slash Prime to learn more.

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They have her tell me this story. And I looked at her again and I said, Mom, are you sure? And she goes, well, they told me I had to tell you this. Because if I told you, then they wouldn't believe me.

She sent us from prison. Just love mother. Got a lot of these. Here's us right here.

Airtight except for a lot of leaks.

We are visiting mom at the women's prison in her prison photo.

Pokey picture. Pokey picture. She was very giving. She'd give you the shirt off her back. I mean, she was that kind of woman. That's why all of this doesn't make sense.

I think what happened to mother was she was in an abusive relationship and she was desperate. And desperate people do desperate things.

People are like, who would do that?

She must have really been desperate though. She must have been.

I got a call on my cell phone, and it was Phil Stanford from the Oregonian. And he said, Darlene, I think we know who's done all this. I think we can get your mom out.

We first got a copy of a letter from a reporter in Portland and signed with a smiley face. And he claimed responsibility for a Jane Doe homicide that we had. And we had no other leads at that point.

He described the location, which was correct.

Then this is Julie with my son Joshua. And then this is Julie with Jeff. This was in 78. This was taken... She was my best friend. I called her Jules. She was five foot two, blonde hair, blue eyes, weighed about 98 pounds, and adorable. Always wore her hair very short, did not like long hair, always loved hoop earrings. She was just cute. Yeah. Wasn't she beautiful? She truly was.

She was beautiful inside as well as outside. And that's how I remember her. She was a free spirit and she would go here and there and she would go to work at a place and wouldn't work for very long because she would always go out on the road. But you know, she would pop in and pop out and over the years she was that type of person.

I told her to get out and then she went back out on the road. I knew we would make up because you can't be friends for 20 years and not make up. So I felt very guilty. for a number of years because I feel that if I hadn't had that fight with her, she would never have left town and she might be alive today.

Where do you know Julie from?

How do you know Julie?

He was a long-haul truck driver. Had been doing it for a long time.

She was my friend. She was my sister. And I would stand and defend her to this day. Because if I would have met Jesperson, I would have pulled her away from him immediately because I wouldn't have liked him.

He felt his back was up against the wall. He doesn't want to go to prison at all, obviously. When I spoke to him on the phone, he had described the letter that he had written to his brother.

Right off the bat, they showed a sketch of the person. I thought to myself, well, that don't look like her. But once they showed her clothes and her shirt, you know, all I could think about, oh, my God, my sister. At that point, the family recognized her as Tanya Bennett.

but his brother pretended like he threw it out, pretended as if he flushed it down the toilet, but he handed it over to the police.

The prosecutor called me. He said, listen, we got this letter. We're looking into it. I look at it and I go, okay. So I took that and went and had a conversation with Mr. Jesperson about it.

He told me that, yeah, this is all true. I had killed, you know, he said I killed eight women. You ask yourself, what do I do with this? How do I handle this? This person just told me he's committed multiple murders.

He was talking to the media. That upset me, it upset the prosecutor, and it upset the judge. This is where it had gotten to sort of a circus level. I mean, I had to wake up each day and see what my case was doing. He just loves the attention.

His demeanor's very soft-spoken. He engages in humor. You can have a good conversation with him aside from the fact that he's responsible for eight murders.

She was found on August 30, 1992. The body at that point was badly decomposed. And to this date, she has not been identified.

She's a little bit slow, but she's the only one that graduated from high school. She read a lot. Instead of watching TV, it was music. Madonna. That's what she listened to all day.

He killed her and then he tied her body underneath his truck and dragged her for a number of miles.

It was just heartbreaking. The women he murdered were human beings, and they all deserve to live.

He ended up brutally beating her before strangling her.

He was worried about his fingerprints. So he cut off the button on her jeans. Got rid of it.

While we were in the courtroom, he turned around and winked at me. So, you know, he had no remorse. None. You could see it in his eyes. His eyes were cold as ice.

We had to sit there and listen to what he did. You know, it's not an easy thing to listen to.

The day that she left the house, I do remember. She said, I'm gonna go see my friends. I said, it's Sunday, the bus only runs once an hour. Where are you gonna go? She says, yeah, I'm gonna go see my friend. I said, okay, well, you know, take the movies back on the way.

I've seen all these tracks and all this and that. I knew it had to be around there someplace. You can tell where people have been in and out.

We were all outside the door, and she hugged everybody, kissed everybody.

Actually feeling sorry for the people that he caused pain to, he said he doesn't, and it's just something that I guess he's really not wired to feel.

Everybody has the right to be who they want to be. Julie was young, beautiful, silly.

I didn't know that anything was going to happen to her. She didn't know either. But she comes in my dreams. I'm good. She makes me happy.

Never found out what she was doing, how she was doing it. Because she kept everything a secret.

I avoid this place. Since 1990, my sister Tonya Bennett was murdered here.

She was a character, I can tell you that.

I forgot about a lot of these. Here's us right here.

Here's when you were born.

She was like a best friend. That's how I felt about her. I couldn't tell her anything.

She's caring. She's naive. Wants to help anybody that she can help.

She was a character. I can tell you that. She was funny. Here's a good picture of Mom and Dad.

We were so normal. And then when their marriage ended after 26 years, because my dad kind of looked elsewhere, that's when things fell apart for her, horribly fell apart for her.

Before he died, he had a farmhand and his name was John Cisnoski.

I don't think she was in love with him. I think that she was at a bad place in her life.

She was lonely, and she didn't have anyone to take care of anymore because everybody was gone.

They had the same interests in music and arts, had played volleyball together.

This is a quilt that we had made that tells a little bit of Libby's life. Libby wanted to try everything. She wasn't afraid of anything, except the dark. She was very giving, very stick up for the underdog.

They were grounded as soon as we found them and they got home. We didn't think the worst. We didn't nowhere near think the worst.

I had a friend that ran up to me and said her husband called her and that they found the girls, but she wouldn't say anything more. I saw the coroner's van go by. And that's when it hit. She's not hurt and waiting for us. That's when I realized.

Whenever you speak to your loved one, the last thing you should ever say is, I love you, because it might be the last time. And that was the last thing I said to him, was I love you.

So I'm like, Patrick, you can't do this to your roommates. you know, here's a check for $60 or whatever it is they wanted for the water or the electric. Go down there and give this to your roommates. Well, he did and he was supposed to come back to the farm

The next day, I was sitting on my front porch. My phone beeped. I picked it up. It was the chaplain. She said, Patrick's been shot, and you need to come to the hospital. I said, no, no, no. You are mistaken. And so I think you have the wrong person. She's like, no, it's him and he's been shot and you need to come here.

We're heart sick. I mean, that's all I could think. Is Patrick going to live? The longer Pastor Rick was in surgery, the more hopeful we were that he was going to make it.

We were just stunned. It's eerie. You know, you always think that you're going to cry and wail, but Sarah cried and wailed. The rest of us were just in disbelief.

This is my five years.

And the murder of Patrick Moffley.

Patrick was born the day after Thanksgiving, November 27, 1992. And he's a Thanksgiving baby. His birthday is always Thanksgiving weekend.

He was very outgoing and always trying to have new friends, and he'd talk to anybody. That continued on for the rest of his life. He was just a really likable guy.

We did chat with the police. So we did tell them what we knew about the whole cocaine incident. Patrick claims these people he was involved with would hurt you if you were going to rat on them or do anything. He claimed that they had enforcers that would hurt you. So we thought, well, could have been a hit to quiet them down.

So at the time, the police are still not sure what the situation is with the shooter. So the police manned the party as well. They didn't know if they were still working the angle of maybe this was a hit.

He would never say he couldn't do something. He would just do it, much to his detriment sometimes. We called him Reckless Rick when he was a child.

Surveillance, undercover buys, and numerous search warrants throughout the city.

The drugs that were seized, they included cocaine, marijuana, Xanax pills, powdered ecstasy, and LSD. Also seized, more than $200,000 in cash, seven guns, including some powerful semi-automatic rifles, and four vehicles. Mullen says there was a connection between the bust and the murder of Patrick Moffley.

The police body cam footage during the trial was painful, seeing Patrick. But I'm thankful that I got to see it. You know, you always wonder what's happening with your child in his last moments of consciousness.

That was the hard part. I mean, here he's been gone, you know, three years. And his last words, we get to see three years later. On the body cam footage, it just made my heart hurt. I felt so bad.

We've had such mixed emotions about that because yet another life has been ruined. I mean, he was young, too. 21, I believe, was, you know, doing the two-year college thing and working in a restaurant. The guy that ultimately got sentenced to life.

We dedicated a dive site in Roatan in Honduras to Patrick. The dive site's called Patrick's Stash.

I think Patrick would say this board's too big. He would surf on a smaller board. Yeah, Patrick would say something like that.

He was bumping heads with someone potentially, maybe the wrong crowd. I don't know what it was at the time. He's getting into a couple of fights. So we wanted him to have a different set of scenery. So we sent him to Costa Rica to do Costa Rica Outward Bound instead of 10th grade. So he's the youngest person ever to go do that. They hiked from the Caribbean Sea to the Pacific Ocean.

I miss my son a lot. I think about him every day.

Whenever you speak to your loved one, the last thing you should ever say is, I love you. Because it might be the last time. And that was the last thing I said to him, was I love you.

The experience of living in the jungle made him mature a lot and he grew personally and his skill levels grew. He proved himself to the leaders of Outward Bound who were tough guys and they really liked Patrick. He came back, you know, he got through high school. He worked here on the farm.

And we wanted Patrick to get, you know, either a college degree or work in the trades or any number of different things.

He didn't really like either of those options. So he chose the school.

Sarah was also at the College of Charleston and Bridget was also at the College of Charleston at the same time.

My phone beeped and it was the chaplain. She said, Patrick's been shot and you need to come to the hospital. I said, no, no, no. You are mistaken. I think you have the wrong person.

Patrick, he seemed super stoked about his classes. He was talking to the professors and things seemed good.

We kind of thought it was a good thing. That, you know, at least he was with different guys that were doing different things. Some played soccer, some were into business, higher education.

but wasn't really sure what.

He's falling behind in school, and then he's missing classes. And then Patrick called us from the Richland County Detention Center to tell us he got arrested. We were stunned. He got arrested in Columbia at a football game. He had eight ounces of cocaine to sell. He was charged with trafficking.

We were stunned.

Patrick was struggling with the things that were hanging over his head. He did not leave the farm, pretty much. January, February... I had made an appointment, and then we talk about mental health. You call somebody to try to get some help. They're like, oh yeah, you know, we can see you in three weeks. So, well, we kind of have an issue today. We were waiting for that appointment.

Angelique's relationship with Wicca was more interest, and I think that kind of trickled down to mom as well.

He was supposedly building a ship, but why are you building a ship in Wisconsin or Michigan? It didn't make sense. There were definitely red flags that David possibly was cheating or hiding something from Angel.

I was happy that my sister found someone. But when I met him, I didn't really care for him.

You know, this force and energy, it wasn't good. But Angelique liked him, so I'm going to like him too.

We were up in arms about that. You know, he's a bum. He's going to live in my mom's house with nothing.

David was wanting her to put Vonda in a managed care facility, and Angel was vehemently against that.

He did nothing. He proposed, and that was it.

He wasn't around, and I thought that strange for somebody who wanted to get married.

Angelique called me, and she was really upset and said that she'd had a bad dream. that she dreamed he was kissing someone else, and I tried to console her. You're getting cold feet or something like that.

When I found out that he had another woman, I went, oh my gosh, Angelic's dream. It's like she was right.

You want people to be held accountable for their actions. Two people are no longer with us who should be.

Would you forgive somebody that killed your mom and sister? I won't.

Hey, you know, that really didn't go very far. That was more for the judge than for us.

Every word that came out of David's mouth in court just made me angry.

He is ineligible for parole. He's going to rot there in jail. Knowing that he's in jail and my mom and sister are dead, no. No, it's not a whole lot of comfort there.

I think I am at peace. I know I am at peace. It's taken me years to get to this place. I just think of them very fondly. My mom's incredible sense of humor and Angel just, gosh. Angelique was a gift to our family.

The night with its endless realm of possibilities. What could last forever? Stars? Scattered diamonds of the night? The stars watch and somewhat guide. Choices and outcomes. But in the end, the stars watch us. That's my girl. That's my girl.

On my answering machine from 15 years ago, It's Angelique and mom singing happy birthday to me.

I kept it. So a month later, they're not on our planet.

Somehow it's still intact.

She was the caretaker for her mom, who had dementia and heart problems, and that was her world.

Well, it was like my little sister was my mom's keeper.

My mom was from West Virginia, and she was a hoot. Oh, my gosh. You know, you couldn't pull the wool over her eyes at all. You know, we all tried, you know.

Angelique and mom would always go out to the beach to go to one of the stores for the Wicca.

Angelique's always been fascinated with the stars. There's definitely energy to things, kind of like the force, be with you kind of thing.

Except for, you know, of course, when Angelique would go out on a date. Mom couldn't go then.

She wanted to be married, and she wanted a family. Yes, she did. She talked about it.

Angel was into the Renaissance and she was having a special dress made. It was red trim, you know, just kind of fairytale. It was very much Angel. I still have the dress that I purchased to wear as maid of honor.

Walter is my ex-husband. We were married back in our 20s. And then, you know, we got divorced. But he stayed in touch with the family. Everybody loved him.

Go ahead, Mom.

I think our conversation's over. You're fixing something, and you're not going to get it here. Well, I'm not fishing for anything.

Now, as far as Silkwood deal goes, there was no illegal wiretap or anything like that ever on our part approved through me or even with my knowledge at all. So that's the next question for you, too.

It was just so hurtful in knowing that in his life Donna could be replaced so easily.

Now Rebecca's pregnant? Now they're going to Hawaii and getting married? Like seriously, can I say it on camera? What the ?

Where's Anna? There she is.

I remember visiting the new house.

Sarah Jane had the baby in her arms and she had a necklace that had Donna's significance on it. She wanted to put it on Bailey, and it upset Mark. Mark said, Mom, could you please take the necklace off? It makes me feel bad. That was the first instance where we felt that Mark said something that was inappropriate. That was kind of the beginning of the end.

I received a letter from Mark one day saying to me, I could not be called Grandma. So I wrote him back and I begged him, please let her call me grandma. And he said, I'm sorry, there's no way that I am going to allow her to call you grandma. And that's the way it is.

Say hi, here's Aunt Deanne.

Now that this woman came forward, hello, there's your motive.

Thank you for my business.

Mark and Donna had a very nice married life. He was a nuclear engineer.

The only thing was she would have liked to have had a child.

The detective said to me, I just wanted to tell you that we now suspect Mark to be the murderer of Donna. And I said to him, what are you saying? That's not possible.

Donna called up and she was hysterical. She had just found out that she could not get pregnant.

Roger's name would be clear. That was one of the biggest reliefs I had, just knowing that people would not think that my little brother was a killer.

And so when this didn't happen, it took a toll. There was a lot of tension in their home.

Here she comes. Here comes the world's best daddy.

You want to blow a kiss for daddy? Blow a daddy kiss. Aww.

Mark was unhappy for the fact that I know he wanted to have a big family.

Well, I don't think that Roger would have ever done what they accused him of doing. All we wanted was his name cleared, you know.

Is the man still in your house? Yes, he's laying there with a bullet in his head. Did you shoot him? Yes, I shot him. He was killing my wife.

Who is this man?

I don't know who he is.

Is he dead? I don't know. He's making weird sounds.

My baby's crying. My baby's crying. I've got to go. I'm coming.

And this was the baby that they were going to adopt.

Doesn't she look pretty?

She sure does.

Say hi, Bailey. Say hi, Grandma Sarah.

The mother's hiding something, I know it.

Tell me where she is.

I know I was sitting next to my husband when I heard the judge say that the verdict was guilty.

Heartbreak came first. Anger came second. Acceptance came third. and sadness never ends.

My first thought was to turn around and give Mr. and Mrs. Harrington a hug because they buried a son who the whole city of Springfield felt was a murderer.

Here's Grandma Drescher.

We knew that Roger was innocent and it finally got proven. He was branded a murderer at the time, but then all this came to an end.

Say bye-bye. Bye, Daddy.

He is like a chameleon. I believe that Mark is a monster.

Mommy's feeling very comfortable these days with Bailey. I think we've sort of bonded a little bit.

Mark was sentenced to life in prison with no parole. He had two counts against him, one for Donna, one for Roger.

You say I love you? Okay, let me see a kiss. Close up kiss. Close up kiss. Give daddy a kiss.

Oh, I think we bonded a lot.

Mark was just as excited to become a dad as Donna was to become a mom.

They were just a model American couple.

Thank you. Thank you.

Donna told me that Mark had a conference. I said to her, why don't you come to Florida? It would be so wonderful. Donna was excited to show off her baby. And as all of her trips, it was always very sad to see her go.

On this very special day, at this very special house, a very special little baby is going to come live with us.

Say hi, Daddy. Say we miss you.

I dropped her off at the airport, and she left. We had hired a driver to pick her up this way. She could just take care of the baby.

She calls me. She tells me this whole story. And I said to her, you had a really crazy driver. But you're home. You're safe. You're going to be OK. She said, I really am really scared.

This man, he beat my wife. I shot him. Please help me. He was killing my wife.

We have a little girl here for adoption. She has dwarfism.

Something is off. She's just a little girl. You think she's faking it? She has adult teeth? There are signs of puberty?

I don't know what's going on. How old are you? You should get a lawyer. You have no idea how those people hurt this girl.

And who do we see but the mommy?

Is the man still in your house? Yes, he's laying there on the floor with a bullet in his head.

It was around 11.03 on a Tuesday evening when all of a sudden we got a phone call.

I remember screaming, Ira, tell me, tell me what is wrong. And finally he said to me, Sarah Jane, Donna was murdered. And I said to him, murder, what are you talking about? And then I finally said to him, we have to tell the girls and I have to break their hearts. And Wednesday morning, we were on an eight o'clock plane to Springfield.

Here comes our special delivery. Oh, look. Oh, sweet.

When Mark walked in with the baby in his hand, everybody cried.

I couldn't imagine what an evil person he was and why he would do such a horrendous thing.

My mother and I started to go to Illinois.

We were taking turns in taking care of the baby.

I didn't understand it, but I loved him because he loved Donna. And that's what was important to me. We needed to get him some help.

So I suggested to Mark that he hire a nanny. And in comes Rebecca, this young, beautiful, tall, blonde nanny who has a heart of gold, wants to help out this poor man.

Mark asked me to show her all the things about the baby and I felt really good about that.

Stand up here. Show Grandma how you stand in your crib.

Can you say hi?

There she is. Most beautiful girl in the world. There she is. Someone's here, Bailey. Someone's here. Oh, hey. You're there for lunch.

Mark called up one day and he said to me, I just want to tell you some good news. The nanny was pregnant. And I thought, oh my God, what is happening here?

Happy Father's Day, dear Daddy.

You are hungry!

It's all squeaky clean.

Donna was the oldest of the three girls.

Look at Daddy. Say hi, Daddy.

Bailey's been walking for about a week. Go see him.

She was outgoing, she loved life. Donna always said what was in her heart and in her mind.

I got a phone call one night and it was Russ County Sheriff's Department saying, we're out on Jimmy's property, we think he's a missing person.

It's kind of crazy because he's never left East Texas. He never wanted to. He had no desire to travel. That just wasn't him.

I was beyond panic at that point to realize there's really something wrong.

I find it hard to believe in this day and age, all the technology that we have, that somebody could disappear. It's like they were never here.

Man kann sich das Gefühl, die Frustration, die Angst und die Was-Wenns nicht vorstellen. Man ist einfach am schwächsten Punkt, um herauszufinden, was passiert ist. Wie haben wir die Begriffe verpasst? Warum würde jemand ihn verletzen?

Sie hat gefragt, ob ich jemals jemanden namens Israel Keys gehört habe. Er war ein Serialkiller, der vielleicht etwas mit meinem Onkel Jimmys Verlust zu tun hatte.

I see that little curl of hair right there. I wouldn't be surprised if that was my Uncle Jimmy's. I hope it's not his hard hat and hair, but I can't imagine what he might have went through if it is.

Ich habe hier schon lange Zeit verbracht. Auf der Straße. Das Fahrzeug wurde hier gefunden.

Ich sollte etwas gefunden haben. Ich erinnere mich darauf, dass ich sagte, dass er nicht zurückkommen wird. Ich musste ihr sagen, dass ich das weiß. Denn sonst ist es einfach... Es ist schwer, dass deine Mutter schmerzt. Ich wusste, dass Onkel Jimmy ihre Person war.

Ich wünschte nur, dass ich ihn anfangen und ihn anfangen könnte. Ich wollte nur, dass er hier sein würde. In all dieser Verrücktheit, in der wir leben, I'd love to see that truck going down this road. But right now this is what we're working with.

Meine Mutter hat über ihr ganzes Leben mit Erdächtigkeit gespürt. Und die Erdächtigkeit hat sich über die Jahre gesteigert. So it's 2009. She was supposed to go meet somebody and she never came back.

Er hatte diese schockierte Ausdruckung. Ich denke an das regelmäßig. Auch wenn sie unter der Influenz eines Drogen war, hätte sie zurückgefallen. Sie hätte eine nachhaltige Impression auf ihren Täter gelegt. Und er war nicht bereit, mit ihr zurückzukämpfen.

Nein.

Das ist eine schwierige Pille, die man trinken kann. Auch heute ist das schwierig zu trinken.

I remember Mom getting a call two or three weeks before she was killed saying, And she had told us then, told Mom then, she was ready to come home. She wanted to come home. She just had some things she had to finish. She had to finish what she had started at Kermagee, trying to help the people there.

If there is something going wrong, we are going to be susceptible to cancer. We're not going to know about it for 20 years. And some of it's got to be done.

Karen Silkwood is dead. She lived her last weeks in terror. She was killed for what should be every person's right, the right to better our conditions.

The same thing that's been going on since she was killed there. It's nothing but a cover-up and sloppy job that they do. And really, it's the only defense they had.

Well, it made me feel bad, but I should be used to it. They've been doing it since she died. But I know it's not true, so I can live with it.

I feel like Karen has been vindicated. And what she was saying was true. And I think the American public believes her now. Pearl McGee Corporation out there was running a sloppy organization. It was unsafe. And the health conditions were very poor. That's what she was saying.

I just think it's wonderful, and I'm finally glad that they've got Karen's name clear. She was only trying to help those people get a clean plant. She was going to quit and come home. She was just trying to help.

I always thought by now we would have known something. So it kind of surprises me we don't. Somebody out there feels like they've gotten one over on the American public. But I think anybody who's familiar with the case, they know. They know the truth. They see. You see. Or you wouldn't have worked on it this long. Right? True. Very true.

I pledge allegiance to what I believe in. Live to fight another day of yesterday. Beat me. I ain't getting younger, but I'm getting better. Got no time to waste. That's another man's treasure. They say every dog has his day. These are the days.

Pace. Thunder. The NBA Finals. Presented by YouTube TV. Continue on ABC.

In Texas, in small counties where they don't have medical examiners, the justices of the peace decide what happens when there's an unexplained or sudden death.

They told him they had a suicide note and they had alcohol and that they had pills. And Billy Martin did not order an autopsy.

I hurt for her. I hurt that someone hurt enough that they made that choice.

There was always the desire in her to be with a daughter that was in heaven now. And she did voice that several times, that Cassidy needed her, she needed Cassidy.

This was my wife's Bible that she carried for years.

Matt had given her a Bible years earlier, and she started writing her feelings in the margins.

She says, I want to go with Cassidy. She could never let go of Cassidy. It was such a strong hold on her.

The next day, she ripped up the prescription. She wouldn't fill it.

Matt, I believe, had been written up at that particular camp for harassing girls that I went to school with.

She was cleaning the bathrooms. Matt came in and offered to help.

All I can tell you is when she left the facility, was in tears, but nothing that I did.

Things have been said that can be misconstrued, misinterpreted, but I can't say this, I never accosted anybody.

She loved Matt. when carrie heard allegations that matt had been inappropriate with young women she was his staunchest defender she told one young woman when you marry a baptist preacher women are going to come forward and make false allegations and you have to protect them carrie believed him And we believed Gary. She was telling us the truth as she knew it.

I think there's a presumption with a man of God that they have a certain character and a certain ethical base. And we believe that.

It started with the cell phone records.

Anytime you got close to the anniversary of the death of Cassidy or her birthday or holidays, there was definitely a deep sadness.

But there was more going on that year. There was the fact that she was uncertain about her relationship with Matt. She sensed that something was very wrong. After Carrie's death, Linda's sisters sat down with Linda and said, we don't believe that Carrie committed suicide.

She said, I think Matt's trying to kill me. And then she started laughing, and she said, oh, no, Matt would never do that.

I think if truly Carrie went and said that and was fearful for her life, the counselor should have done more and didn't. Looking back, I think it was a scream, the first scream in a series of screams that took place that week of, I'm hurting more than you think I am.

At that point, she started to feel a little different. What was going on here and why was this happening?

The first really odd thing she noticed was that Matt had continued to call Carrie's cell phone weeks after Carrie had died. It made no sense at all, and then it all started to click. Matt's giving Carrie's phone to someone.

At that point, Linda started to think that maybe her sisters were right, and maybe they really did need to look into this.

It started with the cell phone.

Vanessa Bowles was the daughter of the music minister at Crossroads Church where Matt was the preacher.

The relationship really started between my wife and her. They became friends.

Vanessa had a little girl who reminded Carrie of the baby she had lost.

There were only three young families in the church that had small children. So we naturally just kind of congregated together because we had similar interests. We were friends.

Linda went to the Hewitt Police Department. She showed them the phone bills, but they weren't interested. This was a done case. It was over as far as they were concerned.

We did. It was nonstop all the time. The assignments Linda gave out involved going through the garbage.

I was the assistant director and she was one of the camp counselors. And from day one, we kind of hit it off.

My wife said she found them in my briefcase when she was looking for a pen. She said, well, did a kid where you work put them in your bag?

But that seemed odd because the pills didn't look like they'd been spit out. What he said couldn't have happened.

Carrie fell head over heels. She told the family that she'd met a good Christian boy and she'd fallen in love.

I left about 11 or so. I wasn't gone maybe 40 minutes.

And that was the strange thing about it is I question where she would have taken the medicine. Personally, this is my opinion, I don't think the medicine is what killed her. I think she threw up into her mouth but was knocked out enough and choked on it. So, no, I don't know if that's just me trying to put stuff together to make it, you know.

Linda ended up making an appointment to talk to a former federal prosecutor.

Bill pulled together his own posse. He brought together retired lawmen to take over this investigation.

Matt grew up in Kerrville. He too came from a very religious family.

The biggest thing was to get the body exhumed, get an actual autopsy, and find out what had actually happened to Kerry Baker. how she'd actually died.

She was so funny. And when Carrie laughed, she laughed with her whole body. Everyone in the room just could feel her because she was just so free-spirited.

One of the tasks that Linda took on for herself was investigating Unisom. She found that it would have taken a great deal to have caused Carrie's death and that she wouldn't have died quickly.

It was critical that they had an autopsy.

I don't think there was ever a question, Carrie was right or not right for me. It was we moved fast. We met in May and married in August.

I think Carrie on some level understood that she was in danger.

Sometimes faith can be used to manipulate and to control people.

Here they were, the police, in the home of a Baptist minister with a suicide note and sleeping pills and a bottle of alcohol. Well, the police at that point aren't thinking murder. They're thinking that Carrie committed suicide.

A month before Carrie's death, they discovered Matt was on the computer searching for the term overdose by sleeping pills.

I did search that. I did research to see, can you overdose? Is that even a possibility that I need to worry about, my wife overdosing on sleeping pills?

As they continued to go through the computer, they found where he tried to buy Ambien had moved it into a cart to purchase it.

I think Carrie on some level understood that she was in danger and she didn't realize that at that point that he was involved with somebody else.

No, we were not. One of our rules for our kids was when they turned six years old, they can get earrings. And so we began looking for jewelry, earrings.

No, here, take your pacifier out. Say Christmas. Can you give a kiss? The kids came quickly. They look like this perfect young couple with this beautiful baby.

It wasn't long after Carrie's death when people came over, they didn't see any pictures of Carrie at all. But there was a picture of Vanessa with the girls. Two of Carrie and Matt's friends came to help with the party. And one of them stayed overnight. And she saw Matt sitting on the couch with Vanessa's head on his lap.

And then Cassidy came. It looked to the outside world like everything was just coming together for the bakers.

She sensed that something was very wrong.

There's no way that he could take a life. I know my sons, and I just don't believe he could do that.

My best decision was to move away from there and to move back here to my hometown, where I felt support and felt loved.

But I have to okay hers? Yes.

Because she likes spaghetti straps.

During this last year, he was a single parent working and taking care of these girls. They emotionally attach to the dead very strongly, the younger ones especially.

Once Matt was released, he went on kind of a press tour.

Pretty much anybody who wanted to talk with him, Matt Baker had an open door.

It was a friend. It was a very good friend. But there's nothing there now. I don't believe in adultery. I don't believe in divorce.

The problem was that for him was that he changed his story a little bit every time he gave one.

One of the police officers found it and handed it to me and I held it in my hands for a brief moment and I looked at the first line and I handed it back and said, I can't read it right now.

There's no way I could ever have hurt my wife. I loved her. She's the mother of my children, and I miss her, and I did not hurt my wife.

It was frustrating, but I mean, we knew it would take time and we weren't going to stop.

People started running around town with bumper stickers that said Justice for Kerry. Love Trump's Evil was underneath it.

It turned out that she had a brain tumor. Carrie was devastated, absolutely devastated.

When the criminal case was stalled and it wasn't going forward, Bill Johnston filed a wrongful death case. And that allowed him to subpoena Matt Baker for a deposition.

It was a scary time, and she struggled in pediatric ICU for 60 days. They started chemotherapy on her.

I put the panties on her in the bed as I was getting her out, and then when she was on the floor, I put her shirt on.

They didn't know if she would make it through, but she did.

We get to bring her home. That was one of the happiest days.

She needed a lot of care when she came home, but she was expected to recover.

The Academy Awards were playing that night, and I remember staying up watching that. I went in and checked on Cassidy and she was fine. I gave her a kiss and said a prayer, checked on her older sister, kissed her, said a prayer and went to bed.

When they brought Vanessa Bolson for the grand jury, that was kind of a last ditch effort.

The civil case was dropped at that point in order to let the criminal case continue.

That first day of the trial, the gallery was full.

I followed this story from the first time it hit the Texas newspapers. It was just so fascinating that this had unfolded, especially in Waco, in this city that's just dominated by religion.

A little while later, he got back up and went and checked on her a second time. This time he started screaming. Carrie jumped up, ran into the room, found Cassidy and she wasn't breathing at all.

This case was one of those cases where all of the attention is focused on one witness, and that one witness was Vanessa Bowles.

I yell at my wife as I'm taking her out of the bed, and I put her on the floor, and I begin CPR. She calls 911.

They brought Cassidy to the hospital, but they weren't able to save her. Cassidy died.

Vanessa Bowles talked about how Matt had ruminated about all the different ways he might kill Carrie.

I know we dealt with it differently. We would have discussions about it and pray about it, and it was a struggle.

Carrie bled grief after Cassidy died.

She could not calm down at night without sleeping pills.

She started writing journals and she just poured out incredible sorrow. She thought she saw Cassidy wherever she went. It was horrible.

He came up from behind me, put his hand on my breast, I pushed him away, told him no. He tried to kiss me. Told him no.

She talked and talked things through. The death of a child always puts a terrible strain on a marriage. Carrie really fought to keep that marriage together. She loved Matt. She wanted it to work out.

It was a long journey for the girls to understand what had actually happened to their mother.

She was an amazing mother. And she would fight for any of us. And I just wanted everybody to know the truth.

It was a year and a half after Cassidy's death. Carrie found out that she was pregnant. Carrie said that the baby was coming by the grace of God.

There was definitely a fear in my wife that I had not seen before. A fear of what if. I lost one, what if we lose another one? I can't handle that.

She loved her girls, and she was so strong for them. Cassidy's life was cut short, but she had them.

The four of them looked like this perfect little family. You would think, oh, look, they just have it all.

Waco is a great city. It's very religious. You can't walk a block without seeing a church.

And when Carrie and Matt moved in, they quickly became part of the community.

I put my head to her chest and didn't see or feel her chest rising, no air coming out, felt for pulse, nothing.

Okay, okay. The 911 operator tells Matt to do CPR, to put Carrie on the floor and start CPR.

i did not want the emts to come in and see her naked and so i put her clothes on her for her and as i'm taking her off the bed fluid comes out of her mouth onto the floor and it smells of alcohol you're gonna push down probably two inches with only your lower hand touching her chest you're gonna do it fast and hard 400 times

The EMTs go in and they find Carrie on the floor. She's wearing a t-shirt and a pair of underpants.

And they come in and I step away and let them start working.

We take our oldest daughter to swim practice that night. On the way, my wife started saying her stomach was hurting her. She just felt nauseated, wasn't feeling very good.

It's a Friday night, so they could stay up later. They could stay up until 10 o'clock watching TV. Came back, laid down with my wife. She's still in bed, half asleep, and she wants another drink. She has a drink. I have one, too. She goes to sleep, wakes up at about 11 o'clock and asks me to go get a movie. And I was like, it's 11 o'clock.

She goes, well, go get this movie for me and gas up because we have a busy day tomorrow.

walk to the bedroom door and it's closed. And I try the knob and it's locked. And I knock on it and call her name, Carrie, Carrie, and there's no response.

So I pop the lock and open the door and find her in bed. And it was very eerily similar to walking in the room when I found Cassidy.

There was this bottle of Unisom that it was almost empty.

She had been taking sleeping pills to go to sleep since Cassidy passed away and started taking more and more of them. And we had discussions that you've got to stop doing this. This is too many. This can be dangerous.

On the bedside table, there's a suicide note.

That was the first time that the word suicide entered my mind. I had no idea at that moment what had happened.

People start to talk, hey, have you heard from Abe? No, I haven't heard from him. Have you seen him? No, I haven't seen him either. And that kind of started to snowball when everybody started to realize, you know, I haven't heard from him either.

When nobody seen him, for the first couple months, we were like, okay, you know, he did say that he was going to go away for a while and just let things, you know, kind of die down and chill, and then he was going to come back.

And the reply was, I don't need nobody filing no missing persons report on me. I'm fine.

I knew that wasn't my cousin. This is not Abraham texting me.

Before he won the lottery, he was always buying Hallmark cards. He was like, hey, can you come read this card to me? I need something that conveys, like, empathy or sympathy. I asked him one time, I was like, why can't you just read the card? And he looked at me, dead square in the face. He was like, I cannot read.

I looked up at him and I looked at the ticket again and I looked up at him. I said you I said you've won $30 million. He said OK, I just wasn't sure I needed somebody I could trust to tell me that. And I was like, do not show this to anybody else. You go to Tallahassee and cash this in immediately.

As if you've won $30 million. Do not show this to anybody.

Yeah, I'm just hoping to hear something.

you take the rap he is not going to show up but i guarantee you ronald has killed him i just know it we're like ronald we've never heard of a ronald and ronald's the one he owed the money to yeah they were doing a drug deal no i think ronald killed him for the money abraham had on him abraham had a ton of cash on him like the tune of 800 000 this is a huge development whoever ronald is didi has just admitted for the first time that she knows that abe is dead

Find out what he knows, because he knows where Abraham's at.

He gave me the name of the person that did it.

I won't forgive her, I don't forgive, and I never will.

He helped tons of people in this city. He kept people from going into foreclosure. He paid light bills, phone bills. He honestly did that.

I couldn't even talk with him in 10 minutes. His phone was ringing. By the time he'd get off the phone with that one, Another one will call you.

Hey, have you heard from Abe? No, I haven't heard from him. Have you seen him? No, I haven't seen him either.

He's like, you know, she has her own business. She, you know, know how to run things. She's going to help me with my LLCs.

None of his children had heard from him. His mother hadn't heard from him. Nobody had heard from him.

Put some good in your morning and start your day with GMA.

And when I called, I said, I'd like to file a missing person report.

We used to have this band we called the Rifles and Dandelions instead of Guns and Roses. That was our silly way of coming up with a band.

Are you guys Michael's family?

This is a picture of Mike and I at his wedding.

They were panicking a little bit that somebody was trying to break into the house. Then, about a week before his murder, Rusty calls 911 again. This time, it's more serious.

Andrea Snyder, adulterer, liar, and master manipulator.

This case is not about what happened. We know what happened. This case is about why. Hemi was like a puppy in love. He felt that he and Andrea were like soul mates.

On to the latest twist in the so-called daycare murder trial, a Georgia man accused of gunning down his romantic rival.

The answer of why in this case, it actually begins with Hemi's father.

His father was a concentration camp survivor, very difficult man, very distant man, not very loving. Our belief was because of his bipolar disorder, he didn't have the capacity to know right from wrong at the time of the shooting of Rusty Snyderman.

What I've been told that I need to do, and that is that Rusty needs to die.

Is it a low voice, a high voice?

The Australian played in Greece. What's her name? Oh, I don't know.

That's the best way he could describe it so that we could understand what he was saying.

When he comes, I think he's real. OK. Do you think he's real now? What do you think he is? I don't think I'm talking to you and sort of analyzing it. Yeah. Probably not.

Hemi's goal in shooting Rusty was to save Rusty's children from the same kind of torment that he himself experienced as a child. He thought he was doing the right thing by killing Rusty to save his children.

I was already pretty late. She found my pajamas, I found my pajamas, and we decided to watch the movie in bed. And we came into bed. And... You had your clothes. No, no. And then I went back to my bed.

The state calls Andrew Snyder, Judge.

Do you know why Mr. Newman would have emailed a friend that you finally gave in?

Look, I got a dog.

Yeah.

State calls Andrea Snyderman, Judge.

The stalker that you've now testified about, you picked him up at the airport.

You flew home with him. That's correct. You changed seats to sit next to him. That's how we always traveled.

Do you know why Mr. Newman would have emailed a friend that you finally gave in?

The gun, in this case, was in Hemi's hand. But the trigger, I respectfully suggest, was pulled by Andrea Snyderman.

Adulterer, liar, and master, master manipulator.

We were devastated because he still goes into the prison system instead of a mental hospital. He had not testified at trial, and I think he wanted to be heard.

This shooting has shaken the school and the community to its core.

I was hoping Hemi would point a finger at Andrea to lessen his sentence. He never, never considered that option. Hemi continued to express his love for her.

The prosecution had no right to subpoena experts that we hired that we did not intend to call as witnesses.

Hemi will never get out of prison. He's going to live his life regretting his actions, regretting that he has no relationship with his own children, regretting that he lost everything.

Just shocked that it happened here. This shooting has shaken the school and the community to its core.

Yeah, he had a hat on, and it all looked like a beard.

My phone rang. Pam, they've got her. What do you mean they've got her? They've kidnapped JonBenet. She's gone.

He goes, well, you're the closest one to her. You're the only one that'd probably be able to talk to her. Tragically, their plans were cut short with Charles' death.

She's psychologically, she's gone. Something's happened to her. Turns out all the things that Charles told me were true.

As of right now, there is no crime.

It sounds like what you're describing is a slow change. That is exactly what happened. And then I think when Lori started seeing Chad, I think then that's when the lying started.

The thing I think about it is I think that they really believed that they were gonna get away with whatever plan they had. Authorities determined Lori's brother, Alex, seems bound up in all the beliefs and mysteries. When Lori started listening to these podcasts, she was telling Alex, you know, about these books, read these books. And Alex, being a truck driver, he had all this time.

So he went on the overboard too. Eight hours of nothing but listening to books or listening to these podcasts.

Do not remember that.

Nope.

All my memories of them are good. Laughing, running around, chasing JJ around, playing games with Tylee. All those memories are all good. I don't remember one bad memory or even about their deaths. I don't know if I block that completely out because I'm focusing on the good things that I remember.

I'll tell you that right now. What was JJ like? So funny. Lori did a great job of raising JJ. JJ's autistic, and he learned so many things. Every time I went to go visit him, he would be smarter and smarter.

They say things escalate even further when 16-year-old Tylee hears the argument and gets involved. I don't know if she swung at him or what, but he grabbed the bat from Tylee and then went to hit Tylee with the bat.

I didn't believe that at all. Why not? Not one bit. I think Lori and Alex had conspired to kill Charles when he was going to come pick up JJ.

Charles had called me and he said, I'm at my end of the rope. I don't know what else to do.

Lori's mindset was off. It was definitely off. And she goes, you think I'm crazy, don't you? I was like, I don't know if you're crazy, but what you're telling me is not normal. And this is not happening to you. And from that point, she tried to cut everything off with me. Adam tried to help. He worked with Charles to plan an intervention. Well, what can I do to help?

Here's the deal. If anything, if we make bad decisions, we make them based in love.

Yes, we make bad decisions trying to love people.

Yes. Yes.

No, I wouldn't say so. I mean, I guess it depends on the person.

I was working at the Dollar General, and he came in, and when he handed me the money, he made sure to touch my hand and, like, look me in the eyes and make it clear that he enjoyed what he was looking at.

Very much so.

Larry was always really gentle with my mom. I don't think I've ever seen her happier.

Immediately. He presented it like it was an accident. He just wanted to live a normal life and stay out of jail.

At first, I was like, oh, that's not great. But then slowly, like, I mean, my mom convinced us. She was like, you know, he's a changed man. He was very warm. He was very nice.

This legacy of integrity is what the foundation of the fire department is built upon.

Yeah, immediately.

Is this your husband?

I call her, in a fit of anger, a murdering .

And hearts are broken. Sisters don't do that to each other.

Why delete it then? Because I typically delete all. No, you don't. You deleted it. And then you didn't tell me about it. And then now we're here. You're lying. And I'm not accusing you. I'm showing you facts of why you've lied. Your story doesn't add up.

47-year-old Elizabeth Foxdor was arrested and charged with obstruction of justice.

Robbie Doris' wife tonight is in jail on no bond for deleting a phone call she allegedly received before calling 911.

Police say Fox Door is not a suspect in her husband's murder.

When my mom, Mandy, was released, she was freaking out. Her fiance had buried guns that she knows he's not allowed to have in our backyard, which is where we buried our pet cat at some point. So that was also not great.

He not once did that to me and never made me feel unsafe. He just made me feel loved.

An Evansville man convicted of murder more than 20 years ago finds himself back in police custody tonight.

Your Aunt Mandy and Larry, do you know anything about their relationship?

When do you interact? I mean, what's his personality?

I have a core memory of waking up at four in the morning and it was my mom screaming at Larry because he had a dating app on his phone. And she was screaming, you know, like, who are these people? And he was just saying, baby, baby, baby, calm down. Like, I forgot I had these apps.

In the detective. They told me everything.

I thought we'd been out with him three times. That's what I thought. The detectives told me that she cheated. Yeah, I say they both cheated on me. You know, her more so than him. I hadn't known him that long. She'd been my sister my whole life. Sisters don't do that to each other, so...

An Evansville father and son are facing federal weapons charges.

Our top story tonight, charges have been dropped against the wife of a murdered Evansville firefighter seven months after they were filed.

It's my dad. I need to get down there. I understand. You're not going through this crime scene. Okay. Well, then get my mother down here. Her name is Elizabeth Doerr.

And I was waiting for her to say something to me, and I said, Mom, what's that on your hand? She goes, oh, nothing. I called her in a fit of anger, a murdering .

41-year-old Enzo resident Larry Holly Richmond Sr. Richmond Sr.

But I didn't.

There were times that I really wish that the camera was not on me. I have no control.

I'm a monster to everybody now. And that's not the person I am.

You don't know your social security number?

I go broke. I can't pay my loans. I start an OnlyFans, but only you guys subscribe.

He said he doesn't have any enemies. He's a firefighter. He's a recluse. Whenever he goes to the fire station, he goes to his little room. He stays there until he's needed. The thing is, this is very odd.

I don't have an answer for that.

The courtroom was tense in the moments leading up to the verdict reading.

Utter silence fills the courtroom as the verdict is read.

Yeah, because there is no evidence that I asked anybody to hurt, much less kill Rod. None.

Who shot him? I have no idea. Oh, no, no.

No.

I'll be lucky to make 30. I mean, if we're honest.

I love her, and I forgive her. I know that she did a bad thing, and I wish she would have done it.

Yeah, he got it for me.

I wear it because I love him, but I was also raised on Jesus and forgiveness.

I've already told fire very specifically that they have to stay outside the table.

Robbie Dorr was shot and killed outside his Oakley Street home. This is a bad nightmare. Didn't have an enemy in the world. Everybody loved him.

We played. We traded stickers. We jumped on the trampoline. Wham. Not in trouble.

That one's me. Math Becky. That was at the 4-H fair. That one's Taylor. I think it's some baby shark.

Six.

My sixth.

Yep.

He would do anything for me. He was my best friend.

Today, the family is together remembering Kathy and the anniversary of her death.

It's hard.

Probably right there before she died.

I think, yeah, probably the worst thing for me is the why. Why? Why did it have to happen like, something like that?

We came over here and found her.

She's handcuffed.

Hey, how you doing?

Good morning, how you doing?

Yes.

I'm going to hug you.

Maybe somebody saw her somewhere at a bus station, at a train station, in a cab, at the mall. We're trying to get any kind of lead that'll take us where we need to go.

Right. And it wasn't without leads. Somebody would say they'd saw somebody similar in Pontoon Beach, Applebee's in Kansas City. But none of them appeared to have much merit.

Right. Right. It turns out that her stepdaughter, Heather Woodward, had been reported missing to the East Alton Police Department more than a week before.

After Bonnie adopted them, it was made very abundantly clear they're in the family. Like, those are her kids.

It was an unhappy teenager, and it was a stepmom giving her chores to do, and there was a little resistance. At some point they argue, and Heather wants to move out, and Bonnie initially doesn't resist the idea.

I can't see it. I can see her being loud with anybody, child or not, and just being vocal, but not abusive. There was no way.

The teachers, I believe her heart was in the right place as she's trying to help this 17-year-old child.

Bonnie went knocking on doors. It was driving Bonnie nuts because she couldn't find her.

We think the two events have to be linked some way. Two missing persons from the same house, one a juvenile and one adult, like, you almost have to believe they're related. Like, it's really naive to think they're not.

I felt like Heather had the answers that we needed. We believed she was the key to finding Bonnie.

This is the humble abode.

You don't know your social security number?

They got Heather, took her to the police station, and I thought, man, they're going to find out something now.

She loved what she did. She went to work, she worked her shift, and then would come home to her children every night, as well as Gary Wilmorth, who she was dating at the time.

July 3rd is her 18th birthday, so she's a bona fide adult in the state of Illinois, but she talks more like a, well, I don't want to be insulting, but like a grade school student or a junior high student.

What do you mean by that? Like, why are you showing up at a library? Who brought you? Where did you come from? Where have you been? Something doesn't smell right? Pretty much.

Gary knew that she had some sort of staff meeting after work from 2 to 3, so he really wasn't expecting her home until, you know, 3.34.

Yeah, it's DCFS, Department of Children and Family Services, and they had been involved before.

It was unfounded. There's no evidence of significant abuse.

I don't know if she was intentionally manipulating adults, but that was definitely what happened.

She was very resistant to talk at all about where she had been or what she's been doing and who with.

Yes, and we had to push hard enough to get that information.

Sure.

Oh, no, she was, everything she did was on a schedule.

There was times I could be at a store, pass somebody on the street, could be the color of their hair. I remember talking to her grandbabies. They said, are you going to bring Grandma back? You got a picture of these little bitty girls looking at me. Where's Grandma? I just thought in my heart she was going to come back. And I wasn't taking no for an answer. She was coming back.

The police department had learned that she had been at the Carroll house. Heather had told Roger Carroll and Monica Carroll that she had run away from home because Bonnie was mean to her and that she had gone to the Carroll house to hide from Bonnie until she turned 18.

After she didn't return home, her family members, they reached out, they tried to call her, they tried to text her, and no response.

The Carrolls go to the same church in Wood River, so the Carrolls get to know Heather, I think, on church-related activities.

He's in his 40s with the brownish gray hair, 5'10-ish. His primary car is a silver 2005 Chevrolet Malibu, which is the suspect vehicle description.

You are Roger William Carroll, Jr. I don't want to answer any more questions until we speak with our attorney. OK. You decided to evoke your right to counsel, correct? Yes, sir.

He brought Nathan with him, got up and left at 7 o'clock in the morning on June 25th, Friday morning, the day Bonnie disappeared.

It is all circumstantial.

There wasn't enough to link Roger Carroll or Monica Carroll to Bonnie's disappearance. However, both of them at that time were charged with harboring a runaway.

We did. We used this mugshot primarily with the employees at Unismith.

It did not. That resulted in no positive IDs.

They are. But sometimes the cases move when they want to move.

She worked really hard to get that truck. She absolutely loved it. So she wouldn't have just left it.

I think anybody that is just trying to locate a loved one often feels like somebody's not talking or somebody's lying.

He said, I have killed for you. I have killed for you.

We didn't know technically if she was alive or dead in the months that followed. None of her family members heard from her.

Right. I got a phone call from my evidence technician who told me we got a hit on the prints. It's Roger Carroll's. So Roger Carroll's fingerprints are on this driver's door.

And we had more than 60 police officers.

We had a lot of people. We had cadaver dogs.

And an airborne search, yes.

Oh, I thought they was going to find a body or something.

So then Heather calls you guys? Yes. I could hear her crying. She was just frantic, you know?

Right. So she kind of... played on your soft hearts and said, can I come stay there?

As far as Bonnie, you've never had a conversation with that woman? and you've never been face-to-face with that woman. You know where she lives, but you've never, other than you've driven by there, like two times, right? Yes, that's correct. And you've never been in her vehicle, and you've never had occasion to handle her vehicle or touch her vehicle. That's correct.

Bonnie survived breast cancer. She was a fierce mother to four children.

So finally I was, at the end of the interview, I was like, how do we explain it that your fingerprints are all over her driver's door? He stumbled just a bit and says... They're not constrained.

He's asking, like, my prints aren't on that door. I'm like, well, yes, they are.

So he denied it still. And the interview terminated pretty quick after that.

When you take somebody to trial for first degree murder, you better be right and you better be ready because you only get one shot.

We still didn't have Bonnie's remains. We didn't know if Bonnie was alive or dead at that time. And what we did know is that Roger Carroll was lying. Roger Carroll, based on the lies that he told, was charged with the offense of obstruction.

What was that like for your family? I know that it was very hard emotionally for many family members.

I got a call from Roger Carroll's neighbor, and he's asking me, he's like, do you know what's going on at the Carroll's house?

Heather was about 17 years old at this time, and Aaron was special needs, and she cared for him every day.

She was the aunt that took a second to actually listen to you if something was going on. And she had a big personality? Oh, yeah, no, huge personality. Very loving. Her house is where a lot of the cousins all congregated. She had this little case in her living room and she'd have little figurines and random stuff that had dolphins on it. None of it made sense to me, but she loved them.

Right, we need a talker.

I don't remember what shift she worked or the days, but I remember those were in conversation.

I just remember thinking that it was very odd that he's asking all these details.

Looking back on it now, I've been scared for a long time, but I just, I wasn't to the point to admit it yet.

He said, I have killed for you. I have hurt a lot of people. But I killed for you. And I think that's Bonnie.

Kind of, yeah. She kind of liked having everybody around.

Roger. What are you doing? What's going on? Remember me? Scott Golicki.

Yes.

Yes, we both aged a lot, and probably me more than him. After the domestic, he was clearly suicidal. And so when I see him, it's not his best day. You know, I had to say a word, but if you want to hear me out, I think it might be worth your while, but it's your prerogative. You're driving this bus.

I had started it with, hey, Roger, you don't have to say anything if you don't want, but we've opened this case. This train's coming down the road. I think what's going to happen now is that this is a homicide investigation, and it's moving in that direction. I was basically telling him, charges on this case are now imminent. But some of the intimate details and the specific details, only you know.

It's the right thing to do for Bonnie herself, also the right thing for you. There's no way. You're enjoying living with this.

We've opened this case. This train's coming down the road. Like, I'm giving you an opportunity to try to mitigate the circumstances. Are you comfortable with the whole situation? I could, I mean... Well, no.

That guy interviewed him for an hour and some change, and really for 55 minutes, he just didn't speak.

Said that something went right?

That things weren't right? When he said that he's killed people... for me to protect me and Nathan. I know that's not right. I know it's not right that he should kill someone, feel that he has a right to kill someone to protect me.

The only person that come to my mind would be Bonnie.

He made it sound like it'd be my fault if something happened to our family, if I ever taught. So I didn't want to be the one to be the cause of our family.

I told Nathan. That Roger told me, I have killed for you. And he was like, don't ever repeat that, Mom. Don't ever repeat it.

This is the next phase in my therapeutic work.

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Monica, she's not present. She's not a co-defendant on the incident.

I honestly do believe that he did away with Bonnie Woodward. I don't know how. I don't know how.

We doubled down on the theory that Nathan was likely with Roger at the time that Bonnie disappeared.

We made several attempts to talk to Nathan, and he refused to talk to law enforcement.

He broke down, and he started crying, and he said he was going to tell us everything.

That's kind of a thing maybe you see on TV with people breaking down in the courtroom and spilling the beans in the courtroom, but it really never happens. But it did.

Sitting in the room was 12 grand jurors, myself and Jennifer and Nathan's attorney. It was absolute silence. You could hear the clock tick.

He told the entire story about what happened that day.

Then after they get home, Roger changed clothes, clipped his fingernails, he shaved, and retrieved his Stoger 9mm from the house and left and left Nathan there by himself.

The tent in the backyard was essentially a death trap to lure Bonnie to the backyard and not into the residence.

when you heard the scope of what he confessed to what went through your mind i don't think we thought fire or burned on a brush pile talk about being haunted right like not only is roger creating a horrible thing to him for him to live with it seems like he created a horrible thing for his son to live with after his grand jury testimony nathan brings investigators back to the house

The second site that Nathan took law enforcement to was what we refer to as the burn pit.

Law enforcement were able to find 27 pieces of what they believed to be bone fragment that were collected and sent off to the lab to see if any DNA or any connection could be made to Bonnie.

Based on the version of events that Nathan gave, we felt comfortable charging Roger Carroll with first degree murder of Bonnie Woodward.

I thought, wow. I mean, they're actually charging somebody for murder.

I thought everybody'd give up. I mean, I didn't know what else to do. And him being charged with Bonnie's murder gave me life again. And I thought, let's do it.

The why question is very difficult in this case because there's not a clear-cut motive.

One of the early things was how Bonnie Woodward was really regular with cashing her paycheck. The day she disappeared was payday, and she would, every time she was paid on Fridays, she would take that check to the bank.

We took note that now it had been eight years that Bonnie had not been seen. So one of the first steps we had to take was to have Bonnie officially declared deceased and were able to obtain a death certificate based on the circumstantial evidence that she had not been seen.

Ritual. The check never got cash. She never went to the bank.

A lot of the trial was built around corroborating what he was telling us was the truth. We didn't want the jury to just have to take Nathan's word for it. We wanted to show that it fit and matched all the forensic evidence in this case.

We were never actually able to find DNA of Bonnie Woodward on these bone fragments. We were able to say that these were bone fragments believed to be of human origin, but we could not definitively say that they were Bonnie Woodward's.

Nathan identified the burn spot on this ridge behind the house. And where the burn spot was is a sassafras tree. The sassafras tree has a scarred spot on the bark several feet up the tree.

Cut slices out of the tree. We sent him off to a botanist. He examined the tree, its age, its growth rings, and said that tree was damaged in the early growing season of 2010, spring or summer.

Her testimony, it pretty much tracked with that, but it was clear to those involved that she had not participated in her mother's death.

He wouldn't look back at me for nothing. I kept looking across where he was, and he wouldn't look at me. So I started talking to the jury to my right, and I said he took away a good woman, mother. I let them know what kind of person Bonnie was.

Roger did not testify at trial. It's his choice whether or not to testify, and he decided not to.

We were notified that the jury had a verdict, so we all went back to the courtroom, and those moments are always very tense.

Wilmuth, W-I-L-M-U-R-T-H. Bonnie was the love of my life, and she was a good-hearted woman. And, I mean, she put up with me, and, I mean, that wasn't easy.

At the sentencing hearing, Roger was given the opportunity to make a statement to the court, and he chose to use that time to be defiant.

When I heard the jury found him guilty, that was a blessing to my ears to hear. Wish he could have got more time than he did.

At least they did lock him up. I gave him that. The police finally making him pay for what he did. Roger Carroll robbed her kids, her grandkids, friends, family. But we won't never forget her. And we won't forget him.

I know, she definitely did. Like, even, especially with family, like, didn't matter what you did. she would figure out a way to just make it better. You really loved her.

Oh yeah, like, she was great.

Sometimes I'll look up at the sky and tell her I don't know if I'll be there, but I hope someday I will and see you again.

No, little money problem, you know, because construction's slow. Right. But we've been working it out. I mean, I'm not a good boy. I mean, I've had a record myself in the past. I've paid my time. And Bonnie knew that. Bonnie still loved me. She didn't care what I did in my past. And these cops sure did.

Bonnie's daughter, Jennifer, alibied him at home.

And Gary was waiting for her to get home

She said they were both there the whole day together.

I mean, mom had to have known the person she got into the car with.

Alton, it's a nice little town. It's situated on the Mississippi River and the Illinois River. It has a vibrant downtown, a lot of history, and it's a great place to live and work.

Nobody wanted this case solved more than her siblings.

Maybe somebody saw her somewhere at a bus station, at a train station, in a cab, at the mall.