Fareed Zakaria

All those things have lost, right?

So at one level, the problem is, as you say, that liberalism not only has won, but then institutionalized itself, and those institutions inevitably...

become fat and corrupt and non-responsive.

And I think this is a real problem.

And what Trump can present is the kind of fiery insurgent spoiler, which always has a little bit more drama to it.

In the 60s, that came from the radical left.

Now it's coming from the right.

But there is always that ability to kind of say, I'm going to upset the apple cart in that

You know, there's a certain energy there that the people holding the cart together aren't able to exercise.

I think that's a real problem.

And, you know, I mean, somebody like a Mamdani has a way of infusing it with a greater sense of passion because maybe he goes directly to the values.

And even though some cases I don't agree with his policies, I think he's a master communicator and he has solved in a way that problem that you're describing.

But I think there are also two other problems.

Liberalism has always been somewhat agnostic about the ultimate purpose of life.

The whole idea, because it came out of the religious wars, was you get to decide what your best life is, and we're not going to have a dictator or a pope or a commissar tell you that.

But that leaves people unsatisfied.

I think there's a part of people that want to be told, what is a great life?

What is this cause greater than themselves?

And the conservative answer is, well, it's God, family, traditional morality, and those are the things that matter a lot.

If you listen to Vance in Hungary, he says, go out there and bring back the God of our fathers.