Fareed Zakaria

We need to, we and Putin and maybe even, you know, Viktor Orban and people like Erdogan and Xi, we need to hold back all this kind of godless, reckless liberty and liberalism that is engulfing the world.

We need to, we and Putin and maybe even, you know, Viktor Orban and people like Erdogan and Xi, we need to hold back all this kind of godless, reckless liberty and liberalism that is engulfing the world.

Yeah, and I think NATO has essentially been eroded already. Because what is NATO? NATO is not the buildings, the treaty. NATO is something very simple. It is the question, will the United States of America come to the defense of a small European country if attacked by Russia? And I think that...

Yeah, and I think NATO has essentially been eroded already. Because what is NATO? NATO is not the buildings, the treaty. NATO is something very simple. It is the question, will the United States of America come to the defense of a small European country if attacked by Russia? And I think that...

The events of the last few weeks have left, I can tell you, having talked to many Europeans, have left the Europeans in no doubt that if Lithuania were attacked tomorrow by Russia, there is almost no chance that Donald Trump would do everything it took to defend Lithuania. So that means they start asking themselves, you know, what is this new world we're living in?

The events of the last few weeks have left, I can tell you, having talked to many Europeans, have left the Europeans in no doubt that if Lithuania were attacked tomorrow by Russia, there is almost no chance that Donald Trump would do everything it took to defend Lithuania. So that means they start asking themselves, you know, what is this new world we're living in?

So you're seeing, I mean, this is really historic, that the guy who's going to become the chancellor of Germany, Friedrich Merz, has said the most urgent task for Europe now is to begin a step-by-step independence from the United States because the United States, or at least Donald Trump, have shown themselves to be indifferent to the fate of Europe.

So you're seeing, I mean, this is really historic, that the guy who's going to become the chancellor of Germany, Friedrich Merz, has said the most urgent task for Europe now is to begin a step-by-step independence from the United States because the United States, or at least Donald Trump, have shown themselves to be indifferent to the fate of Europe.

That is, you know, seismic for what was really America's most important ally in Europe to say that our principal strategic task now is to find a strategy of independence away from the United States. And you're going to see other countries do variations of that. And in some cases, Those countries will be probably doing private kind of hedging in a way that they can't publicly admit to.

That is, you know, seismic for what was really America's most important ally in Europe to say that our principal strategic task now is to find a strategy of independence away from the United States. And you're going to see other countries do variations of that. And in some cases, Those countries will be probably doing private kind of hedging in a way that they can't publicly admit to.

The one part I don't agree with you is I think there are countries that are going to do deals with America. Everyone is going to be wary of a long-term relationship. Because they realize that certainly in this new world, those don't mean that much.

The one part I don't agree with you is I think there are countries that are going to do deals with America. Everyone is going to be wary of a long-term relationship. Because they realize that certainly in this new world, those don't mean that much.

I was in Australia last December, and I met with a senior official there who said to me, you know, we're very happy to be in this closer relationship with the United States. We're delighted that you're sharing your nuclear technology with us, you know, the nuclear subs deal that we made with them.

I was in Australia last December, and I met with a senior official there who said to me, you know, we're very happy to be in this closer relationship with the United States. We're delighted that you're sharing your nuclear technology with us, you know, the nuclear subs deal that we made with them.

But the big question we wonder about is we have now put ourselves in a structurally confrontational role vis-a-vis our principal trading partner, China. We didn't have to do that. China is a long way away. We were happily trading with them. We hope to continue to do that. But it has completely changed the relationship we have with China. That's okay if you have our back.

But the big question we wonder about is we have now put ourselves in a structurally confrontational role vis-a-vis our principal trading partner, China. We didn't have to do that. China is a long way away. We were happily trading with them. We hope to continue to do that. But it has completely changed the relationship we have with China. That's okay if you have our back.

But if in a few years you decide to cut a deal with China, we will have made a generational strategic error. And I think that is what's going to be in every country's mind, you know, about getting close to the United States in a long term. That's why I say these alliances took eight decades to build.

But if in a few years you decide to cut a deal with China, we will have made a generational strategic error. And I think that is what's going to be in every country's mind, you know, about getting close to the United States in a long term. That's why I say these alliances took eight decades to build.

I broadly agree with what you're saying. That Europe needed a kind of a kick in the pants. And interestingly, the threat from Russia has turned out not to be big enough to get Europe kind of energized.

I broadly agree with what you're saying. That Europe needed a kind of a kick in the pants. And interestingly, the threat from Russia has turned out not to be big enough to get Europe kind of energized.