Francis Foster

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So why do so many people...

In the scientific world, in government, in politics, why do so many people believe that there is this strong connection?

so i i think it's an irrational way of thinking well let's come back to the science a little bit can you give us i i think one of the interesting things whenever we talk to someone like you is you operate on a time scale that the overwhelming majority of people have no way of even conceptualizing in their head which is millions of years hundreds of millions of years

And do you think that's part of the reason we're here?

In the sense that I often think like, if people saw the entire history of global temperatures and saw where we are on it, they would ask a lot more questions than anyone's been asking.

But if you only look at the last 50 years, then a story can be told that's much more persuasive about how it's all doom and gloom.

Can you explain the mechanics of that?

How much of this is about hubris, Ian?

Because the way I see it is 1,000 years ago, 14,000 years ago,

It gets colder.

We look around, we go, it's getting colder.

We need to adjust.

We need to huddle in the villages.

We need to do this.

We need to do that.

Because we know we can't change what's happening.

But now we've become so technologically sophisticated, we're so advanced, we're so competent at solving problems that we almost, I think, are pre-wired to think that every problem that exists, A, has been caused by us, and B, must be solved as opposed to adjusted to.

How much of it is simply about the fact that human beings, in line with increasing technological advancement, have become very, very arrogant about their ability?

Well, here's where I'll permit myself to disagree with you, though, Ian, because I think what Francis's point is, when Tony Blair and Bill Gates and others wrote back on their previous advocacy for dealing with climate change through net zero, that's not a scientist changing his mind, having looked at different data.