Francis Fukuyama

And if you live in a liberal society, that's going to involve retaining liberal traditions.

I think one of the problems we're facing now is conservatism is mutated into something scarcely recognizable.

You know, it's

returned to an old... Well, let me put it this way.

I think in the days of Ronald Reagan, conservatism really was a form of liberalism.

He believed in markets.

He believed in limited government in all of these constraints.

And

You know, I basically agree with that.

I think the government could be more active in terms of dealing with social justice, inequality kinds of questions than he did.

But he was actually still in that liberal tradition that I think is foundational, that's really been at the core of American politics really since the founding of the United States.

What's changed is conservatism because it's gone off in this ethno-nationalist direction that has become quite authoritarian in the way that it's implemented.

And I think that that's very illiberal.

You know, Viktor Orban, that you refer to as just having been defeated in Hungary, said that,

he was trying to run an illiberal democracy.

That means, you know, you have elections, you have popular will, but the government isn't restricted.

The government doesn't have to follow checks and balances.

You know, the government can do whatever it wants.

And if that's the new form of conservatism, I mean, J.D.

Vance seems to think so, then that doesn't have much to do with the kind of conservatism that existed, you know, in Ronald Reagan's day.