Frank Walker

And they were hoping that Leo would be more open to meeting with them.

And he said, well, I'm all about listening.

And so that's what I'll do.

And that's what they were sort of expecting.

And that's what's happening today.

Well, Francis Church and Leo's Church are the same kind of church.

They're not really Catholic.

They're just sort of this new thing.

And they've always said that they're all about listening.

But whenever I hear that, whenever I hear that, I always think about how it's not really about listening.

And so the first constituent in 2013, I think—

And Francis had a speaker, Cardinal Casper, who came and he told everybody that people who are in a state of mortal sin, divorced and remarried should be permitted to go to communion.

And it created quite a stir.

And after that,

Francis sort of gave up on the whole idea of meeting with cardinals again.

He created this organization, the Gang of Nine, we call it, to reinvent the Curia, and they would meet, and Francis would meet with them, and he would meet selectively with cardinals, but he would never have a consistent, until 2022 he had one,

And it was basically, there wasn't much listening to it.

The document they were discussing had already been written, so they didn't really have any input.

Francis was never really about input from the Cardinals.

He was about telling the Cardinals what to do.