Gabby Logan

And I always think back to when Gordon Brown left Number 10.

And he had not shown us much of his personality, really, in that short period of time he was prime minister.

And suddenly he was walking out with his boys who we had not really seen before and his wife, obviously, who we had.

And it was a very emotional.

I was quite surprised how emotional I was about that and how I wished he'd given people a bit more of himself.

And you don't want it to be inauthentic.

You don't want people to kind of do a schmaltzy, you know, this is my family.

Theresa May's voice breaking, telling us how this was the honour of her life.

It doesn't matter what your political persuasion, when you see the vulnerability and the human, do you know there's one person I can't imagine ever Donald Trump...

delivering a moment like that where I feel remotely connected to him as a human being maybe maybe he'll surprise us all but even people you've not necessarily admired as politicians or you've not particularly warmed to yeah I feel emotional whatever party is by the way you know I'm not making a party

It's funny because I agree, the got you thing is tired, but there's still this clickbait thing that drives a lot of... Moments.

Yeah.

A lot of TV, you know that something is being kind of engineered towards a click and digital and, you know, kind of moments that are, you referred to it earlier on, just so fleeting, really quick, and they don't tell you anything about the bigger picture.

Do you resist and push back on that kind of narrative?

So you've talked about your energy and your desire to be, well, you think you want to be less busy, but you patently don't because you've just taken on this enormous challenge and you are very good at being busy and spinning lots of plates.

Where does the energy come from?

Do you make time for kind of exercise or lifestyle kind of hacks that give you that?

I have to say, Cathy, it goes against most of the experts we have on the podcast who talk about sleep and being this very important tenant of your health and well-being.

Well, except that I've just read a book about sleep.

Because I was worrying that... You found your sleep guru who says you don't need to sleep.