Gabby Logan

Yeah.

So it feels like it's better at the moment.

It feels like the kind of corridors of power anyway, the attitudes there, because they're not tolerated.

Yeah.

but not necessarily overall for women.

And then you think, why would I do that?

Why would I put myself in the line of fire like that when you hear those stories being reported?

To get to where you are in your career and to have this platform you're going to have now is grit.

It's determination.

It's hours and hours of work, doing the shifts at times that you didn't want to do that might have kind of taken you away from your family.

And you have to keep doing.

And in so many careers, that is the way you get to the top.

Is it something that is innate in you, do you think?

Or did you learn by looking around, this is the only way I'm going to achieve this?

Well, I get accused of being competitive.

Oh, you're so competitive, you're so competitive.

And it always comes out as an insult.

Are you competitive with Cathy?

Yeah, all of that.

Or do you go for, I'm going to have that job?