Gary Jubelin

And just we'll let people know that where you're talking up, I'm asking you what were the good points about it from your point of view, but you're looking back now and knowing that it's a putrid world, a world that you don't want to be in.

Well, that's why I think people that have been there and speaking out, it's an important message to get out.

It's not glorifying crime.

You want to find out what crime is like.

This is what crime is.

Your five minutes of fame and happiness is, yeah.

Yeah.

It's sad, but that's what it was.

And I've heard a lot of people say that, that they didn't see another pathway out and the role models and that.

Do you think anyone could have made a difference if there's one person that could have made a difference at any stages in your life as you're progressing into that world?

Good question.

Yeah.

I can understand that.

Sometimes life is about a journey.

Yeah.

It would have been an easier journey if you took a different path.

No.

You might have been sitting here.

I might have been sitting there.

The world is a confusing place.