Gavin de Becker

Congress is like that.

We'll declare war on some country and no one person is responsible.

But I would like to say something optimistic, Joe.

And that is that, you know, what COVID did something, the disaster of it, I'm not talking only about the virus.

I looked at my life and said, what are the ways, things that I'm grateful for today that didn't exist?

I made a strong commitment to travel with my kids because we were told we couldn't.

And I'm very grateful for that having happened.

I lost a lot of relationships, as I'm sure you did, and we both will after this talk today.

But I also made some of the strongest relationships in my life.

I mean, people now who you or I could show up at their front door in a crisis at 2 in the morning, and they'd let us in.

Yeah.

Well, you found out who's courageous.

That's a very important piece.

And the heroism of that, you know, you are one of the people who has given me optimism and hope because you put it on the line in a way that most people don't.

And governments didn't like it.

Powerful governments didn't like it and still don't like it.

And so those relationships, I think, have made – they give me optimism.

And also a dear friend of mine said when you think of the worst things that human beings do, you should also think of the –

lofty things they do at the same time, which is heroism and supporting each other and loving each other.

And our willingness, yours and mine even, to talk about this stuff publicly is a – neither one of us is claiming to know all these answers.