Geoff Knupfer

When those were recovered, they had photographs of the victims.

And they also had a tape recording of what was purported in the trial in the 1960s to be

the murder of one of the little girls, a 10-year-old girl.

She was always adamant when we spoke to her, because they wouldn't talk about this, of course, in the 1960s.

By the 1980s, she was saying, well, it wasn't actually a recording of the murder, but it was certainly a recording of the photographic session that he took.

And she claimed that she didn't know the tape recorder was there, that it was hidden under the bed, and she wasn't told.

Hmm.

Who knows?

What happened in the 80s that the Mars Motors case was reopened?

It started because a journalist, a guy called Fred Harrison, who worked for the Today newspaper, which is now long, long gone, he managed to wheedle his way into prison to see Ian Brady.

And he pretended that he was...

there as a sort of freelance social worker and he wanted to help Brady.

In actual fact, he was a professional journalist.

And he carried this on for some considerable time and then went in and told Brady that he was a journalist and that blew it.

But of course, the next day, the headline in the Today newspaper was that Brady admits two more cases.

Well, he hadn't admitted two more cases.

He just not said he hadn't done them.

So that was good enough for a tabloid newspaper, of course, you know.

Yeah, it's quite difficult to figure out why it all happened the way it did, I suppose.

We did a lot of background work on Mara Hindley.