Chapter 1: What is the main topic discussed in this episode?
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Walk it hard and long. episode 270 of the talking bollocks podcast brought to you by go loud it's me cob it's me tidy flower and today we're joined by jeff not for jeff you flew in this morning to have this conversation and do this podcast for us and we really do appreciate it do you want to just give a slight intro into who you are and what your background is
Yeah, sure. My name's Geoff Nutfer. I was a police officer in Greater Manchester area and also worked in London and elsewhere. Really, the reason I'm here today is because I got involved in reinvestigating the Moors murders in the 1980s.
Brady and Hindley committed these appalling murders with young children, the victims were young children, in the 1960s and they were both sentenced to life imprisonment. The case was reopened in the 1980s because there were two missing children still unaccounted for.
In 2004 I got a call from the Department of Justice in Dublin asking if I'd come over and talk to them about the Commission for the Disappeared. I was aware of it but I didn't know a great deal about it. I came over and then in 2005 I was requested by the Irish government and the Northern Ireland UK government to undertake a review of what had happened since the Good Friday Agreement.
and see what opportunities were still remaining to do some work. I think the most important aspect of all this is that, you know, this is a humanitarian process and not a criminal investigation process, albeit most of us were ex-detectives and bizarrely from the other side of the water. And it seemed strange that we should be coming in to do this work.
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Chapter 2: What was Geoff Knupfer's background before investigating the Moor Murders?
Yeah. So... That definitely started later on down the line.
Well, yes, it did. Albeit, I have to say, you know, when I came to Ireland in 2005, by any stretch, it was a steep learning curve. There's no two ways about that. You know, they were clearly difficult times. And albeit I'd studied history, I wasn't aware of just how dire things were pre-1968, 69, you know.
When you join the police force are you just out on the beat and you're happy to do that?
Yeah, I was four years, something like that, out on the streets doing shift work. Early days, obviously, pounding the beat on foot. As years went by, panda cars came along and we were all driving around, which I think was probably a great mistake for policing, really, because we lost that touch with the communities.
So you were out on the beat for four years, you said? Yeah. Then you go on to become a detective?
Yes, yeah.
So one of the, I suppose, infamous cases that you worked on would have been the Moore murders, right? Can you tell us a bit of background about what actually happened there and then how you got involved with it?
This was a couple, Ian Brady and Mara Hindley, who had been working together in the early 60s. They met at their place of work, a firm called Millwards Merchandising. She was a young typist, never been in trouble at all. Brady was born in Glasgow and had spent his early days up there and got himself in a bit of hot water here and there with theft and the like.
And one of the court appearances that he made, the judge said, right, well, your mother has moved. She'd met somebody and moved down to Manchester. And he said, right, you can go and live with your mother down in Manchester. So that's how he moved from Glasgow to Manchester. And, of course, these two, as I say, they were working in the same place. He studiously ignored her for months on end.
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Chapter 3: How did Geoff Knupfer get involved in the investigation of the Moor Murders?
So I think it comes as quite a shock to some people to say, well, you know, what would the commission do if it came across evidence? We would conceal it. We wouldn't disclose it to anybody. In fact, we'd destroy it.
So you are contacted. I would imagine the reason why they contacted you is because they were having great difficulty finding them.
Yeah, I think, bless them, that the people who framed this legislation did so from, if they'll forgive me for this, from a rather naive standpoint. I think they thought that they'd enact this legislation and somebody would ring and say, if you go to the top left-hand corner of such and such a field, you will find a grave.
And to some degree that happened in that three victims were recovered in those early days, the 1999-2000s. One was left in a disused graveyard and a local priest was informed. So clearly that had been on private ground somewhere and was exhumed by the former paramilitaries, put in a coffin and left there.
Two more were found by the guards and there was another case where a body was found on a beach by accident. But other than that, all these other cases were left as big question marks.
When you first came over, did you realise how big and sensitive of a job this was going to be?
No, I think that's a fairly straight answer. No. When I first arrived, I was asked if I would undertake a review and make recommendations on how the process could be taken forward. There was a guy called Mitchell Reese who was one of the U.S. officials, and he had done some work in the States where some railway workers who died and buried were found as a result of using forensic science.
They were actually Irish migrant workers.
Yeah, yeah. So he talked to the families and then wrote to the governments and said, you know, there are avenues you could explore here. So I think that's really, long story short, that's how my name came into the frame. And, you know, really what we're doing is...
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