Geoffrey Cain

You are the executive.

In Toy Story, he was credited as the executive producer, and that's where Steve did really well.

He was the wheeler and dealer.

He could walk into a negotiation, and he could put on a theatrical show and convince people of things, and he could get the other party to sign the deal, which favored Pixar.

That's where he shined, but it was not in the actual creative work, which is so unlike Steve Jobs, because we always assume Steve is a creative genius, right?

But this is a great example of

not controlling things too much.

Steve learned that there was an inversion to the hierarchy at Pixar.

He actually talked about this in an interview that just recently resurfaced, that there's a reverse pyramid and the CEO of a place like Pixar, highly talented place, is at the bottom of the pyramid and their job is to keep talent on board.

That's what he learned there.

And that's why Pixar succeeded in the end.

Right.

Well, Steve didn't want to return to Apple originally.

He had entertained it.

His friend Larry Ellison was trying to do a hostile takeover in

We now know from the record that's come out since then that Steve did not want to return to Apple.

Everybody posted him says that.

He talked about it in private.

His wife, Lorraine, was also opposed to him returning to Apple.

It was a pressure cooker.