George Saunders

being of benefit to people within your sphere, okay, well, how do you know if you're being of benefit or not?

So it was an interesting, that talk was an interesting way for me to realize that maybe I had equated kindness and niceness in too easy of a way, disconnect those, and then it gets to be a real lifelong connection

But I think now what I think is that kindness, so-called, has so much to do with your ability to be in a moment without a whole lot of monkey mind going on.

Because then you're more likely to be able to posit what could be helpful in that situation and make the decision.

Well, I want to push back on your framing because I think even the worst hurt on the planet, if you fall down in front of him, he's going to help you up in general.

I actually think that's true as a kind of working hypothesis.

So then we get to a different statement of your question is why does a person who in his own life does value kindness and does love his parents, love his kids, why does he hit the switch on whatever harmful thing he's doing?

That's a deep question.

My theory is most people don't operate from the Cruella de Vil school of evil.

Like, yeah, yeah, yeah.

I suck.

You know, I don't think so.

Uh, so then it gets really interesting.

Okay.

So why then, if you sat down this person and said, do you believe in kindness?

Of course I do.

Why then at the moment of truth, did they make the decision that they make?

And I think, you know, you can look at our politics right now.

Um,

And I don't really have an answer, but I'm very interested in some of the stuff that comes out of the White House press thing is really, it's post Orwell, post Kafka, the things that are being said.