George Saunders

I'm so fond of me, and even when I'm not fond of me, I'm quite attached to me.

And I've had a couple of times in my life, just briefly, where I could feel, oh, okay, there's a little distance there between me and self, I guess you would say.

If you could get a lot of distance, then death would just be no problem.

experiences you had of when when sort of the it was the world opened up a little it was just nothing particularly magical just after long periods of meditation uh i i think it probably manifests in small ways you know that your your feelings don't get as hurt uh you you know you see an unflattering picture of yourself and you go oh that's funny you know but um

The teachings that I've read, that's the indication is that self is the problem.

Self is also so beautiful.

You know, it's so wonderful to have a self.

And that's in the book too, I think.

Yeah, in a sense, yes.

As a writer, you're kind of trying to be a canary in the coal mine.

And I think you're doing it by having the low thought thing so you can actually observe the data.

And so there are a lot of things that – and actually, my usual reaction is, oh, man, I kind of underestimated it.

So I think part of the fun is to pick up on just a little hints, early hints of something and –

But yeah.

Well, yeah.

And I mean, it's not a new idea, but I think that the rate at which we're being encouraged to forego human-to-human activity, that's an amazing thing.

And it seems to me driven by

I mean, not to sound like a cliché, but it is driven by corporate hegemony.

And so there are forces.

And the weird thing is these forces are full of wonderful people.