George Saunders

Now, we can't always discern it.

That's why karma is difficult, because we think we're doing something, but the real rules and cause and effect are not available to us.

So you have unforeseen consequences.

But yeah, I think karma, for me, is just the super, super long-range cause and effect that operates.

For sure, it does.

Sure, sure.

I mean, in the sense that if you have a bad habit of mind, for example, you know, of course it follows you everywhere, you know, even if you don't know what it is.

And many of the side effects, you never know about them, you know.

So that's, yeah, that's a beautiful thing.

Do you have any sense of how you're doing karmically?

No, I mean, no, that's exactly it.

I think when people use it in a kind of groovy way, they say, oh man, that guy got the promotion over me.

Karma's gonna bite him in the ass.

That's bullshit because karma means whatever I want to happen will happen because God likes me.

What about you?

I mean, are you a karma person?

But I wonder if, and I'm just spitballing, but I wonder if the punishment isn't really dependent on one being aware.

So for example, let's say that I went around with these headphones in my ears really jammed in there and I couldn't hear anything.

I love them.

They feel great.