George Saunders

I think the more gently you do the work, the less likely you are to mess somebody up, you know?

Whereas sort of an old model was, I know who's got what, you know?

I can identify the one.

You don't have it, kid.

And I really don't like that.

It just forestalls so many possibilities.

And I can remember times in my life where...

If an authority figure had read my work, they'd have gone, oh, no, no, no, no.

You just go back to engineering.

So I'd rather miss some opportunities and do less.

than be Mr. Confidence and squash somebody.

Yeah, because actually, you know, what was interesting is when I started to read about it in the Buddhist tradition, that word just means cause and effect.

So it just means the ultimate cause and effect that's at play.

Now, we can't always discern it.

That's why karma is difficult, because we think we're doing something, but the real rules and cause and effect are not available to us.

So you have unforeseen consequences.

But yeah, I think karma, for me, is just the super, super long-range cause and effect that operates.

For sure, it does.

Sure, sure.

I mean, in the sense that if you have a bad habit of mind, for example, you know, of course it follows you everywhere, you know, even if you don't know what it is.