George Saunders
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What is the main topic discussed in this episode?
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Just a heads up, this episode does have some strong language. Has ambition ever led you astray?
I think the answer is no. And I tell my students, you know, if you have ambition, the worst thing you can do is deny it in an attempt to be a good person. If you took the name off it, it's kind of a love for life. It's kind of an aspiration to bring out the best in yourself.
I'm Rachel Martin, and this is Wildcard, the show where cards control the conversation. Each week, my guest answers questions about their life, questions pulled from a deck of cards. They're allowed to skip one question and to flip one back on me. My guest this week is George Saunders.
It's funny, the state of mind you're in when you're writing, it's like kind of, you can be really beautiful and pure and concept-free, and I'll hit a nice moment in the story, make a nice fix, and a little voice will go, oh, the New Yorker's going to love that, you know? And then you go, yeah, okay, welcome to the table, now get out of the way, you know?
George Saunders is considered one of the master storytellers of our time. He uses humor and empathy to draw readers into characters and situations that stick deeply in the imagination. He also seems to me like a guy totally preoccupied with the liminal space between the living and the dead. And I dig this because I am also preoccupied with said in-between space. It was the setting for his best-selling book, Lincoln in the Bardo, and of his newest novel, Vigil.
How does George Saunders define ambition in his life and work?
I am so very happy to welcome George Saunders to Wildcard. Hi!
Hi, Rachel. So happy to be here with you. Thanks for having me.
Oh, I'm just so pleased. What fun. I know. I think we are going to have fun if I'm allowed to just project that.
I can't wait to get the big cash prize at the end of the game.
You're going to be rich, George. Okay, so we're going to start with memories, and I'm going to hold up the first three cards, and you just pick randomly.
Give me that middle one. That's calling to me. The middle one.
Yes. Out of the one, two, three, you go middle, right off the bat. Okay, here we go. What's the riskiest thing you got away with as a teenager?
Oh, yeah. The riskiest thing as a teenager.
Okay.
Flip. Immediately flip. I'm going to just contemplate it and go through that.
You just used that right off the bat. Okay, the riskiest thing I got away with as a teenager. Well, I should first say that I was the eldest child and so very much a prototypical eldest child. So it makes my answer perhaps less interesting than some. Well – I stole my parents' car.
You stole your parents' car.
I mean, I just made that sound really dramatic. It is true, but I only drove a block. So I'm not quite sure if that counts.
What themes does George Saunders explore in his novel 'Vigil'?
But I definitely snuck out and I definitely went – when I was a sophomore, I definitely went to the senior – football party that was being held around the block and ultimately got away with it and only fessed up to it very late in life and by the time that no one cared, obviously.
See, I'm not sure that really counts unless you sell it.
That would have been a good answer. I stole my parents' car and then sold it. I told you it was not going to be a good one.
That's so sweet, though, that that's your greatest sin.
I know, that sounds so not cool or interesting. You're a good person.
But I was the same. I was also very self-regulated. But sometimes that got in my way. So my dad had a chicken restaurant in Chicago, a franchise, and I was his delivery boy. So one time we got an order late at night, and he said, you know, the customer's always right, take the order. And I went out, and the address was fictional. I couldn't find it. It was between two existing houses. So I'm standing there stunned for a minute, and suddenly this guy comes out of the bushes. And pushes me down and grabs the package and runs off.
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Chapters
8 chapters
1
What is the main topic discussed in this episode?
0:00–1:44
2
How does George Saunders define ambition in his life and work?
1:44–3:04
3
What themes does George Saunders explore in his novel 'Vigil'?
3:04–7:06
4
What childhood experiences shaped George Saunders' perspective on risk?
7:06–10:18
5
How does George Saunders reconcile ambition with the creative process?
10:18–12:15
6
What role does George Saunders' wife play in his moral compass?
12:15–14:53
7
How has George Saunders' view on death evolved over time?
14:53–15:43
8
What does George Saunders wish everyone could experience in their lives?
15:43–56:42