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George Saunders

๐Ÿ‘ค Speaker
2018 total appearances

Appearances Over Time

Podcast Appearances

The Ezra Klein Show
George Saunders on Anger, Ambition and Sin

Now, the mechanism by which he did that or the rationale is interesting.

The Ezra Klein Show
George Saunders on Anger, Ambition and Sin

But he knew that climate change was a thing, and he consciously or unconsciously denied it.

The Ezra Klein Show
George Saunders on Anger, Ambition and Sin

That's where he was out of sync with truth.

The Ezra Klein Show
George Saunders on Anger, Ambition and Sin

One of the books I had in mind while I was writing this was Death of Ivan Illich by Tolstoy.

The Ezra Klein Show
George Saunders on Anger, Ambition and Sin

And in that book, it's a much more modest sinner, and his sin is just that he lived his life by the credo that I just want to do what everybody else is doing.

The Ezra Klein Show
George Saunders on Anger, Ambition and Sin

I want to be normal.

The Ezra Klein Show
George Saunders on Anger, Ambition and Sin

So at the end of his life, he gets stomach cancer and it was based on a real thing that Tolstoy's neighbor supposedly screamed for four straight days at the end of his life.

The Ezra Klein Show
George Saunders on Anger, Ambition and Sin

And Tolstoy heard the story of like, wow, what would make you do that?

The Ezra Klein Show
George Saunders on Anger, Ambition and Sin

So in the book, the guy has this intense physical pain, of course, but Tolstoy has layered in this idea that Ivan is starting to realize that he wasted his life by this idea of being normal.

The Ezra Klein Show
George Saunders on Anger, Ambition and Sin

Yeah.

The Ezra Klein Show
George Saunders on Anger, Ambition and Sin

And there's a beautiful moment where after many, many days of saying, why am I suffering so much when I lived the perfect life?

The Ezra Klein Show
George Saunders on Anger, Ambition and Sin

He finally says kind of to God, all right, maybe I didn't.

The Ezra Klein Show
George Saunders on Anger, Ambition and Sin

Maybe I lived out of alignment with truth.

The Ezra Klein Show
George Saunders on Anger, Ambition and Sin

And at that point, he begins this rapid transformation.

The Ezra Klein Show
George Saunders on Anger, Ambition and Sin

Salvation in that moment is aligning yourself with what is actually true.

The Ezra Klein Show
George Saunders on Anger, Ambition and Sin

The truth is you lived your life in the wrong way.

The Ezra Klein Show
George Saunders on Anger, Ambition and Sin

And at some point he says, all right, I can't go back in time, but I can start now, essentially.

The Ezra Klein Show
George Saunders on Anger, Ambition and Sin

I can start being in alignment with truth.

The Ezra Klein Show
George Saunders on Anger, Ambition and Sin

I didn't live in the right way.

The Ezra Klein Show
George Saunders on Anger, Ambition and Sin

And you can feel the pain start to go out of him as soon.