George Saunders

Okay, let's look under that.

Why is that, you think?

Oh, you feel this.

So you can kind of get to a point where you're not necessarily making a case for them, but you're at least taking in as much data as possible.

And so that's how I imagine Jesus managed some of these amazing reactions that he had to people that his culture were very averse to, you know, like a prostitute and so on.

Zacchaeus.

Yep, yep, yep.

And is that where Jesus says, is that about the camel, the eye?

And he was there because he was too small to see over the crowd.

Well, good memory.

That's a good one.

My first real job was with my dad's restaurant in Chicago.

It was called Chicken Unlimited, which is a very kind of—and we had this kind of Zen— It was bold.

That's right.

But we had a Zen catchphrase, which was, Chicken Unlimited doesn't stop at chicken.

Hmm.

Think about it.

So I was his delivery boy.

And actually, I think what I learned there was just, I mean, I love to work.

I love any kind of work, even if it's hard or pointless.