George Saunders

If you don't stand up and say, get these turds out of here, you know, bring me my lasagna, then he's won.

And if he keeps bringing the turds and you don't call him on it, then you erode.

Your belief in truth

erodes and you start to shrink and pretty soon they're all bets are off so i think that's where um and now what what amazes me is that they want that and they know how to do it that's the part that if i was going to write a book about this time i would try i would really want to understand because as you said i don't think anyone gets up in the morning goes yeah time to be evil i don't think i mean there are probably some so shit passed and so on

But mostly, I think J.D.

Vance wakes up in the morning and he feels like a good Catholic.

And that's fascinating to me.

I don't quite— Despite being repeatedly rebuked by popes?

Yes.

Just a couple of years after he turned Catholic?

It is interesting.

And as a writer, that's such rich stuff to go towards that which you don't understand and vow not to falsify it in either direction.

Just look at it, look at it, look at it.

That's rich.

I think so, yeah.

I mean, the kindest thing...

I made that one speech, you know, and, and I, I stand behind it, but it was kind of a simple.

Right.

No.

And also the speech says, the speech says I, I suck at kindness and it's, it's too bad, you know?