George Saunders

So then of course, the way that things work is you talk about, if we had to talk about squirrels and I, and I said, I really love squirrels.

That's going to show up in the next seven interviews.

So let's talk about your relation to squirrels.

So it does kind of, it's sort of replicates, you know, and I'm, uh,

Certainly for kindness, and I try to be nice, and I try to have good public manners.

But in truth, it starts to work into people's interpretation of your work.

As if that's what I'm trying to do, is model kindness in my work, which is so far from the truth of what I'm doing.

to anger i have it all the time i've had a like a rough couple years and we had a lot of illness in the family and dogs sick and all kinds of weird things and most days i'm just a little agitated and kind of uh entitled and pissed off you know a lot of days i'm struggling with that so in in the buddhist tradition that's the course i mean you have negative emotions who doesn't

And the whole thing is to try to work with those somehow.

Maybe in some traditions, you could take a negative emotion and convert it to a positive emotion.

So, I mean, this is the thing about this kindness shtick that bugs me is I can be struggling through a day with, say, with our sick dog.

And what I'm doing all day is just trying to be, do the right thing for her and interrupt narratives of anxiety that I'm having about what I should be doing, how long do I have to do this before I have to rush off.

That's a whole day.

And then you get on a call and someone says, tell me about your approach to kindness.

It seems so hypocritical and it seems so partial.

Because yes, kindness, of course, and empathy and all that stuff.

But if you are an adult, that stuff has to take place on a much higher level than just intending to be kind.

Well, I think, and first of all, I think I have a, I had, or maybe still have, a misunderstanding of kindness being niceness.

Kindness is a deep concept and it's not about nice.

I think it's about being beneficial in the moment you're in.