Gerard Waitley

As long as you don't jump.

So even when we have these discussions, it doesn't actually make it that much clearer.

No, it doesn't.

But that's- To officials.

But then, and also Jared Healy, he'll be ringing in a minute and saying, well, okay, that's fair enough when you're on the ground.

What about when there's a marking contest and the two hands go on the back?

Well, that was the one- That's coming down under a closer scrutiny as well.

Correct.

So that will also be something.

But we've been here before.

I've been here before many times trying to clear this up.

Remember Jeff Gueschen, when he went on some show, I can't remember which show it was, famously trying to explain what it was.

And it just made it even more confusing at the time about whether you could extend your arms out fully or half or partially.

Well, at some stage, you were allowed to have any hands in the back at all, whether there was a push, a shove or not.

Yeah.

You want to go back to that?

Well, you were one of the great swingmen.

So you were on the receiving end and you were on the giving end as a defender.

Back in the day, what could you actually do?

What did you think?