Godard Abel

Siebel has one.

And he said, great, let's partner.

So this was before the AppExchange.

I think they had like Apex, API.

So we partnered with them.

And then for a couple of years, it also didn't work.

I think first year we partnered, we had like one or two joint customers.

But then all of a sudden, by, you know, then it turned a corner because Salesforce started moving up market.

And I remember our first big deal with them was with Ricoh, the big copier multifunction printer company.

But they were looking at Salesforce and Siebel.

And they said to Salesforce, they're like, hey, unless you have a configurator, we're not buying your product.

And then they called us.

And so they started bringing us into a lot of deals and business really started growing.

And so eventually it actually turned into a big success.

And we did scale it.

We never raised more money.

We actually scaled it cash flow positive.

And ultimately had a great exit to Oracle.

But that was, I think, really our formative years was just learning how to sell.

And I do think you learn the most by pain.