Gordon Carrera

I think it is a fascinating moment.

There were a few people in MI6 who asked to be moved, I think, because they're distasteful for the war, but didn't speak out publicly.

But Catherine Gunn goes public when she sees this email saying we're going to spy on the UN and is opposed to the war and goes public with it.

As you said, the prosecution against her is eventually dropped.

There's a film, Official Secrets, about this.

It's a fascinating story about her.

I think it's interesting, though, because...

Are we shocked by the idea that the US and UK were spying on the United Nations?

Right.

Are we?

I don't know.

Are we?

I'm less shocked.

I think you're right in that it's the kind of thing that they do, which we don't always know about.

But it is that thing, which is if you really oppose the policy and a part of it, I think your best option is to resign.

Now, leaking, going public, that's a

Obviously, different thing, but I think it's interesting because it does give a sense though about how divisive this was at the time, including even within an intelligence agency like GCHQ, that someone felt that they were outraged by this and had to act.

But it's not going to stop the march for war.

You're getting these reports from the UN inspectors, including one from Alvarade saying the uranium from Africa claims are fake.

But in a way, it doesn't matter anymore because the train's leaving the station for war.