Gordon Carrera

So it's a very interesting group.

Now, John Scarlett is chair of the group.

This is also interesting because it's quite unusual to have someone from MI6, which is where he'd been, previously Oleg Gordievsky's handler, as the chair of it.

Normally, you'd have a diplomat who's a kind of consumer rather than someone from the production agencies.

And there are interesting kind of personal dynamics here.

I think it's worth saying because he is an MI6 officer who's gone to this job, but he's also hoping to eventually succeed Richard Dearlove as chief of MI6.

And it's fair to say that he and Richard Dearlove are not that close.

I think that's me being a bit British and understated.

I think Dearlove would rather have other people succeed him as chief of MI6.

And so there's some tension there, I think it's fair to say.

So Scarlett is told by Number 10, Alistair Campbell and others, that this dossier, which they're now planning to produce in September, has to be revelatory.

Guy called David Omond, who was a security coordinator at the time and sits on the JIT, he says, we didn't object to doing this.

We didn't see the risks at the time.

We just thought this is something we've been told to do.

And he has this line, all have to dip their hands in the blood of collective judgment, however unwelcome that may be.

And that is the JIT idea is, there is no

Glad to see it gets carried through.

Dipping our hands in the blood of collective judgment.

So that's the dossier, which is going to become very famous in the UK.

People involved in it would say, well, it's not propaganda.