Gordon Carrera

I mean, per person, they had more informants in the population than any other regime in history.

It was incredibly surveilled.

And yet it still collapsed.

And I think that is interesting.

And a parallel with Iran, it's people power.

It's people going out on the streets, people protesting.

There's a great line from the time where a writer said, fear changed sides.

The regime started to fear the people rather than the people fearing the regime.

That switch, isn't it, is hugely important because it's the moment where the state loses the will to take action.

And there's a particular moment, I think, in Leipzig in October, where there are massive demonstrations being planned, people going to come out.

The state is prepared to repress it.

You know, the tanks are ready.

The hospitals are told to stand by.

The local officials, though, call up national officials and say, we don't know what to do.

There are so many people out there.

The people are nonviolent.

The national official kind of says, oh, I don't know what to do.

I'll call you back.

Never does.

And so they do nothing.