Gordon Corera

And so Ewan, after initial meetings, sends a four word text saying, from Hong Kong back to Janine Gibson at the Guardian in New York. And they knew they couldn't talk openly on the phone, but she needed to know whether this was the real thing. And the phrase is, the Guinness is good. And that means he's the real deal. The Guinness is bad would have meant he's not trusting him.

And according to you, and this was a little joke because him and Janine Gibson used to go out for drinks when they were on the road together. And he'd always want a Guinness and she'd want a kind of wine or a cocktail or something. And so, you know, the Guinness was a reference. But that message goes back to New York saying the Guinness is good. He seems like he's for real.

And according to you, and this was a little joke because him and Janine Gibson used to go out for drinks when they were on the road together. And he'd always want a Guinness and she'd want a kind of wine or a cocktail or something. And so, you know, the Guinness was a reference. But that message goes back to New York saying the Guinness is good. He seems like he's for real.

And according to you, and this was a little joke because him and Janine Gibson used to go out for drinks when they were on the road together. And he'd always want a Guinness and she'd want a kind of wine or a cocktail or something. And so, you know, the Guinness was a reference. But that message goes back to New York saying the Guinness is good. He seems like he's for real.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah. Like, totally. Yeah. I think they worry about him, actually. Ewan says, you know, he had kids the same age. And he's thinking, Snowden, you could go to jail for the rest of your life, potentially, for what you're doing now. And so they are thinking quite hard about the kind of risks for him. But I think they can see that this is something he's thought through and he wants to do.

Yeah. Like, totally. Yeah. I think they worry about him, actually. Ewan says, you know, he had kids the same age. And he's thinking, Snowden, you could go to jail for the rest of your life, potentially, for what you're doing now. And so they are thinking quite hard about the kind of risks for him. But I think they can see that this is something he's thought through and he wants to do.

Yeah. Like, totally. Yeah. I think they worry about him, actually. Ewan says, you know, he had kids the same age. And he's thinking, Snowden, you could go to jail for the rest of your life, potentially, for what you're doing now. And so they are thinking quite hard about the kind of risks for him. But I think they can see that this is something he's thought through and he wants to do.

And, you know, they're probing him. Greenwald, at one point, I think, probes him on his morality and where it comes from. And his answer is interesting. His video games are Should be encouraging for all of us. You know, it's the idea in a video game, you're the kind of individual hero in your game or in your story who's kind of taking on the great powers and you can do it.

And, you know, they're probing him. Greenwald, at one point, I think, probes him on his morality and where it comes from. And his answer is interesting. His video games are Should be encouraging for all of us. You know, it's the idea in a video game, you're the kind of individual hero in your game or in your story who's kind of taking on the great powers and you can do it.

And, you know, they're probing him. Greenwald, at one point, I think, probes him on his morality and where it comes from. And his answer is interesting. His video games are Should be encouraging for all of us. You know, it's the idea in a video game, you're the kind of individual hero in your game or in your story who's kind of taking on the great powers and you can do it.

And so they're getting this sense of an unusual character, I think. I think they can also see that he is not a spy in the sense of working for a foreign power and that he views it... as a patriotic act. Now, I'm sure some people would disagree with that, but he sees himself not as betraying his country, but as defending the constitution, which he thinks has been violated.

And so they're getting this sense of an unusual character, I think. I think they can also see that he is not a spy in the sense of working for a foreign power and that he views it... as a patriotic act. Now, I'm sure some people would disagree with that, but he sees himself not as betraying his country, but as defending the constitution, which he thinks has been violated.

And so they're getting this sense of an unusual character, I think. I think they can also see that he is not a spy in the sense of working for a foreign power and that he views it... as a patriotic act. Now, I'm sure some people would disagree with that, but he sees himself not as betraying his country, but as defending the constitution, which he thinks has been violated.

So I think all of that makes him realise he is committed to doing this. He wants to see it through, knowing the risks.