Greg Jackson

You can manage the physical problems that would help reduce the risk of something as happened in Spain and Portugal.

But it's also how you deal with the economic problems that Tony Blair rightly highlights.

The biggest offshore wind farm in the UK is paid to turn off 71% of the time it could be operating.

Now, what that means is because we don't have a dynamic way of managing to use the electricity that's available in a renewable world when it's available.

The kind of theoretical, the sticker price for electricity from that is about seven or eight pence a kilowatt hour.

But the effective price per unit delivered is more like 27 or 28 pence.

Right, because it's turned off two-thirds of the time, essentially.

Yeah, and it's getting paid to be turned off.

So not only have you got an idle asset, you're literally paying for the units you didn't get.

And then you have to pay someone else to generate them.

We're at a stage in the energy transition when a lot of the kind of rigidities of the old world are causing the physical problems you describe, in this case, the Iberian Peninsula,

and also the economic problems that Tony highlights, Tony Blair.

And so I think what we need to do now is not row back, but we're halfway across the road.

Now, if you've ever seen anyone hesitate crossing a multi-lane highway, that is a very dangerous thing to do.

The best thing is to get right across as quick as you can.

And that's what we have to do in the transition now.

And to do that, we need to be taking sometimes hard decisions and driving some really important change in how we manage the system.

And so this digitalization, it's quite interesting, actually.

I mentioned earlier the South Australia grid.

After their very, very major 2016 blackout,