Greg McKeown

So it's an ongoing conversation.

And so they're developing expertise in that area, but the overlap has been minor.

And one of the reasons it's minor, as one of my advisors has pointed out to me, doing the complex interplay between people is so challenging to study.

It is so immense.

So much is happening.

You can see why people have moved to the other side of the aisle.

But recently, he made the point that perhaps no more than 10 years ago, that a few researchers have emerged who have been using the new technologies that we have, the deep data, and very much more recently, AI, to be able to bridge the gap.

It's called naturalistic technology.

methodologies and that's what i've been doing in my research it was such a valuable useful way of naming and framing the problem and it's affected directly the way that i tried to approach what it is i've been studying so that's just one insight that i had from speaking with jamil

And what is the mattering effect?

That idea is easy for me to relate to.

So there's a kind of a meeting of the minds moment because the first lesson every human learns is that if they're not heard, they will die.

And that's physiologically true because, of course, if your cry is not heard and you're not fed, you will die.

but it's also turns out to be psychologically true where we have these case studies in Romania, for example, and also in England, when children were first, I can't remember the name I'm looking for, but when they're put into these hospitals, but that's what's the word I'm looking for, orphanages, there you go.

These cases of perfectly physiologically healthy children, in both cases, we have these well-documented rolling over and dying.

So their physiological needs are being met, but not their psychological needs.

And it still has a physiological impact.

One of the things that I've been studying through these last sort of four or five years is the depth of that need.

And you're calling it mattering.

We could say, in other words too, we could say to be seen, heard, known, understood.