Greg McKeown

And that isn't a nice to have, it's a need as deep as, I think it's as deep as anything minus physical survival.

And it's the latest that we understand on this, it is a cradle to grave need.

And so it's not just as attachment theory once suggested, just these key years of one to three, although clearly that really does matter and is disproportionately important.

It stays with us.

And I may have interesting thoughts as to how to develop that within ourselves, counterintuitive insights into how to do that.

But anyway, this is a meeting of the minds moment, I think.

Well, and beyond the 200 interviews, what you're describing, I think, is in that self-correction process is the deep work of life to be able to, it's almost like the sci-fi idea of going where nobody's gone before.

And to do that,

a deep work is, I think what it takes is courage and courage feels terrible.

We want as little of it as possible is the general practical rule, right?

We don't want to, it sounds good in books, but in practice, it's a terrible feeling to feel courage and the need for courage.

But that sounds like what you've done is to go, is that 20 year journey, almost 20 years

is really about that the unraveling of how you got here in service of rebuilding something different something better what did i get wrong no i mean it's absolutely the case i think we're best positioned to serve the person we once were and when i saw

You said a couple of different things there.

Let's just build on this idea of people having lost the narrative of their lives.

So when I wrote Essentialism, it was 10-ish years ago,

We were firmly in the middle of the information age whose primary characteristic or challenge was distraction.

And it's not like that has gone away, but as we've moved into the AI age, I don't think it's distraction only, it's disorientation.

And that's not a trivial shift as far as I'm concerned, because information overload is one thing, but emotion overload is a different thing.

And it's this emotional noise that leaves us feeling, well, the word noise fittingly comes from the Latin nausea.